gsksun4 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) On the gym thing: Back in the 60's, the guard contests were in gymnasiums and many had a full corps exhibition at the end. We (Sun) even did a few and I caught the Skyliners at one. While the entire greater NY area wouldn’t miss it, that my friends gave new meaning to the word LOUD. Not sure how a full line-up of that would go over without Advil. Edited December 18, 2012 by gsksun4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 no your wrong. just because of amps in 2014 is not the reason i'm talking about. the cost of doing drum corps as a performer is getting to much the payout to corps by DCA is to little. the dwindeling crowds. if you don't see this then get your head up and look around. but being in denial and saying everything is alright is just not reality. My comment was tongue in cheek, at least regarding the amplification. As for the rest, the audiences I saw in Annapolis did not appear dwindling to me. Costs, of course, are a concern. But how does pit amplification help with that? How does moving DCA into expensive arenas help? Both these ideas add cost. And at the same time, what effect would/will they have on attendance? Maybe your wakeup call is warranted. Over recent times, I have been thinking of DCA as the lower cost, sane alternative to DCI. I hoped DCA would see themselves in that same light and develop strategy accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Gary, You might be thinking of Wildwood, NJ. The indoor convention center hosted almost full field sized DCA shows there. Even though the corps weren't engineered in advance for that setting, it was a good night of entertainment. Looked to be many non-drum corps types present. Sound was different, but not a significant problem to my ears. The view is this. Over the past several years, even top-tier DCA corps are having difficulty filling their ranks. Crowds are smaller. If this trend continues, the football field stage becomes less effective. Does the activity adjust, and how? I'll ask a question then, not as a nay sayer, but out of curiousty, and with respect to your knowledge as years of a show host and time with DCA admin. What evidence do you see that shows moving it indoors will help? I realize the outdoor thing is a concern more and more every day at all levels of the activity. But I have yet to see anyone release any kind of research going inside is the next way to go. Sure, Blast has been around for a while, playing the same variations on the original show for what....15 years? Drum corps doesn't have Bill Cook's money to kick start that movement now. Also, fully understanding the limitations of an indoor venue, you'll need smaller ensembles. So in effect, unless someone has tons of money to start up several of these new smaller groups, members will be turned away. I ask because I have seen you for years trumping inside is the way to go. The indoor standstills are slowly dying off, mainly because the corps usually attending are alumni corps, and the fanbase for that type of show is slowly dying off. But even on a local marching band circuit level, it has been explored to try a Blast or Impact style ensemble that would do a lot of what you seem to think is the way to go, and interest has been tepid at best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) no your wrong. just because of amps in 2014 is not the reason i'm talking about. the cost of doing drum corps as a performer is getting to much the payout to corps by DCA is to little. the dwindeling crowds. if you don't see this then get your head up and look around. but being in denial and saying everything is alright is just not reality. amplification will alienate older fans. That's for sure. the key is what does DCA plan to do to market to the younger crowd to replace the fans that leave or die off? I see no serious outreach by DCA to anyband circuits to help market themselves to the next generation. As I have said before, there are 3 circuits with bands participating in them around the Annapolis area, and I have seen little to no marketing outreach with them. Edited December 18, 2012 by Jeff Ream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donincardona Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 amplification will alienate older fans. That's for sure. the key is what does DCA plan to do to market to the younger crowd to replace the fans that leave or die off? I see no serious outreach by DCA to anyband circuits to help market themselves to the next generation. As I have said before, there are 3 circuits with bands participating in them around the Annapolis area, and I have seen little to no marketing outreach with them. and therein lies the problem. DCA is at a standstill. stuck in the mud. when vince bruni passed away so did an vision for the future. i don't have an answer. they are working on a dying model. gil is a good man but he hasn't shown any vision for the future. this is a tough thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Hello, Jeff! I'm not ready to prioritize justifications for an arena venue over a football field. In random order, the new concept could . . . . Save money for everyone by limiting corps size to what can fit onto 2 buses, and use less, and smaller trucks. Allow for more "full" size corps to exist by making "full" size smaller (like 75-80). Place current Class A-sized corps on more equal footing with the "big" boys. Possibly create an easier path to additional "local" corps. Save money through smaller pits, less contras, etc. Drills can still involve "running," just not so much, not as far! Enhance the ability of our groups to "tell a story," be thematic. Eliminate weather and calendar limitations. Open up job opportunities in newer venues, like college basketball arenas. Deploy lighting techniques, like spotlighted soloists, a darker house, colors, etc. Allow for the ultimate arrival of electronics (like that or not). It's here, and growing. Provide much more comfort to the audience, like less bleacher seating, no bugs, temperature control, etc. Remove some of the "It's just half-time, marching band" stigma. More easily allow for two performances per date, maybe a 2pm and an 8pm gate. Allow for special effects demanded by today's audiences, like fog, lightning, strobe effects. Provide for enhancements through video boards, like close-ups, and paid advertising More easily accommodate television coverage. Yes, this is a major step into a new world. Why not understand it now, while there's time? Thank you for asking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idontwan2know Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 If you think it's hard finding a rehearsal facility now, just try and talk a high school into letting an outside group on their gym floor. Not gonna happen. High school guards and indoor lines can't even get time in their own gyms anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 The calendar has limitations though. High school and college marching band, winter percussion and winter guard seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 and therein lies the problem. DCA is at a standstill. stuck in the mud. when vince bruni passed away so did an vision for the future. i don't have an answer. they are working on a dying model. gil is a good man but he hasn't shown any vision for the future. this is a tough thing. I think part of the problem is there may be multiple visions for a future....no disrespect, but Vince's vision may not have been the one either. Vince's corps was far more beloved by older fans than the younger generations. Just a few years ago, twice in the season I was seated by "kids", and different ones, who whipped out every insulting dairy term they could tink of to describe Empire's show designs and concepts. Some corps have tried going more the DCI route in design. Some haven't. Some have tried to offer up some of each in the same show. Before we get to where we discuss show design, I think actual marketing needs to happen. This may offend, but those great tv spots we saw touted on here a few years ago.....do we know that they drew anyone to the shows up there? I think far more needs to be done on the local levels to draw in fans, so they get hooked and make finals a destination. You're not going to get a lot of walk up business from the curious at finals weekend prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Hello, Jeff! I'm not ready to prioritize justifications for an arena venue over a football field. In random order, the new concept could . . . . Save money for everyone by limiting corps size to what can fit onto 2 buses, and use less, and smaller trucks. Allow for more "full" size corps to exist by making "full" size smaller (like 75-80). Place current Class A-sized corps on more equal footing with the "big" boys. Possibly create an easier path to additional "local" corps. Save money through smaller pits, less contras, etc. Drills can still involve "running," just not so much, not as far! Enhance the ability of our groups to "tell a story," be thematic. Eliminate weather and calendar limitations. Open up job opportunities in newer venues, like college basketball arenas. Deploy lighting techniques, like spotlighted soloists, a darker house, colors, etc. Allow for the ultimate arrival of electronics (like that or not). It's here, and growing. Provide much more comfort to the audience, like less bleacher seating, no bugs, temperature control, etc. Remove some of the "It's just half-time, marching band" stigma. More easily allow for two performances per date, maybe a 2pm and an 8pm gate. Allow for special effects demanded by today's audiences, like fog, lightning, strobe effects. Provide for enhancements through video boards, like close-ups, and paid advertising More easily accommodate television coverage. Yes, this is a major step into a new world. Why not understand it now, while there's time? Thank you for asking! However, what you have laid out just leaves some of the questions I asked hanging there. Like...smaller...so where do current members go when there are no spots? Electronics will still raise costs, even on this new leveled out field. Who says A Class corps want to hang with the big boys? Look at Govies....quite content being in A Class, and easily the most successful corps in DCA A Class history. you mention running...you do realize an arena floor is actually a less forgiving surface than a football field right? Having been around in indoor, I can tell you I've seen more injuries...and some worse,...there than outside. ok, climate control...but accoustics have to be considered. This is still a musical activity. And inside, especially if you crank it up ( and they will) and plug it in ( and they will) you're in for some serious sound issues. Don't believe....go to Dayton on 4/18-4/20....and that's with no brass. I dont think setting enhances or hurts being thematic. Quitehonestly, we've some amazing thematic options on a football field. The only true enhancement going inside could offer would be lighting...which equals more cost.. Andno offense....but it will still be "marching band", just inside, and I doubt the TV world will put it on as even then, it will be more of a niche activity than it is now, and not one that will draw the kind of sponsors needed. Sorry but you just opened more questions than you answered. Quite honestly, I think this idea will sped the death up as opposed to hold it at bay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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