N.E. Brigand Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 It ought to be obvious that it takes more guts, is riskier, is braver, etc., to have singers perform live than to prerecord them. People on these forums have been arguing against the use samples for that very reason. Why should Crown be exempt from the same criticism other corps got before them? It's June 21st. Crown does practically all the voice in the show live. Especially the exposed very, very hard parts. There are only a couple spots that are sampled and those are sole samples that would be easy to do live. It's just a choice. Crown does the stuff that will get them positive credit live. So at the moment, Crown has made a bunch of bold choices but also a few timid ones. The latter are all that skywhopper called "gutless". Do you understand that? And maybe giving them more than three weeks to put the entire show on the field before the masses think it's DCI-ready, as well as a vocal layer that is fresh and innovative for the activity, of which no one has ever attempting fusing vocals into the fabric of the music the way that Crown is attempting. Don't make excuses. If Crown isn't "DCI-ready", and they're performing in a DCI show, they should be prepared for some criticism. Bluecoats received flak a few years ago for the recorded "What the hell am I doing here?" during "Creep" in the season's early performances. Several corps have been roundly criticized in the past few years for ending their early-season shows with a minute or more of standstill. As skywhopper noted earlier, Blue Stars last year offered a solo synthesized bassoon sound at the first shows that was panned by many and subsequently replaced by a baritone. And remember, there are hundreds of audience members in Mesa who will not see any other drum corps show this year, so whatever impression Crown made on them is all they get. Maybe for some people, this is their way of feeling involved by complaining. And other people feel involved by heaping praise, perhaps indiscriminately. Anyway, a lot of the criticism so far can easily be read as constructive: "I'd like your show more if you replaced the sampled voice with live voice." Several years ago just having voice period was taboo and would supply pages and pages of complaining that DCI was going to die and lose its fan base. Now I guess it just has to be live--hmm, progress. See my footer. I firmly believe that drum corps should be acoustic, but since I'm apparently in the minority (of the remaining fans, anyway--don't write off claims about a diminishing audience too easily), I have to make the best of what's left. And watch out for the slippery slope. This year, when skywhopper argues that there's no more justification for prerecording a voice than there is for prerecording a trumpet, he's told that the latter is ridiculous, or would never happen. Next year when, say, the Cadets, are using a prerecorded trumpet, what will the defense be? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrownStarr Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) The usual defense of Einstein is that "it turned me around" or "it completely changes your sense of time." But although I fervently champion art as an eye-, ear-, mind-, and soul-opener, I see no point in changing our sense of time. What a close-minded review. That right there is the essence of it, to me. Minimalist music has nothing to do with being in a trance or being drugged out. I can't find the quote at the moment, but Steve Reich has a good one criticizing this stereotypical view of his music, and of the other major minimalists (including Phillip Glass). Now to be fair, Phillip Glass is not my favorite composer, and I'm not the biggest fan of his music. But I do love minimalist music in general, and I appreciate what he's doing and why it's important (and especially why it was in minimalism's earliest days). This reviewer clearly does not get understand what minimalist music is about. But to add a second addendum, I think this review has little to do with Crown's show because their show is so radically different from the original Einstein on the Beach in so many ways. I love E=mc^2, but it's not "minimalist" at all. EDIT: to clarify why I didn't like the review, it's not just because it was critical of EotB. It would be like writing four paragraphs tearing apart a DCI show and then saying "but anyway, I think all music played on a football field is stupid". Then why'd you bother writing the rest of the review? If you disagree with or dislike the art in such a foundational way, then your review probably won't be very interesting or useful. Edited June 21, 2013 by CrownStarr 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lone ranger Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 So at the moment, Crown has made a bunch of bold choices but also a few timid ones. The latter are all that skywhopper called "gutless". Do you understand that? Don't make excuses. If Crown isn't "DCI-ready", and they're performing in a DCI show, they should be prepared for some criticism. Bluecoats received flak a few years ago for the recorded "What the hell am I doing here?" during "Creep" in the season's early performances. Several corps have been roundly criticized in the past few years for ending their early-season shows with a minute or more of standstill. As skywhopper noted earlier, Blue Stars last year offered a solo synthesized bassoon sound at the first shows that was panned by many and subsequently replaced by a baritone. And remember, there are hundreds of audience members in Mesa who will not see any other drum corps show this year, so whatever impression Crown made on them is all they get. And other people feel involved by heaping praise, perhaps indiscriminately. Anyway, a lot of the criticism so far can easily be read as constructive: "I'd like your show more if you replaced the sampled voice with live voice." See my footer. I firmly believe that drum corps should be acoustic, but since I'm apparently in the minority (of the remaining fans, anyway--don't write off claims about a diminishing audience too easily), I have to make the best of what's left. And watch out for the slippery slope. This year, when skywhopper argues that there's no more justification for prerecording a voice than there is for prerecording a trumpet, he's told that the latter is ridiculous, or would never happen. Next year when, say, the Cadets, are using a prerecorded trumpet, what will the defense be? I don't see crown making any excuses and I doubt they care what you all think, those that are complaining about sampled numbers. As that's the rule. No samples that create rythm or music. That's why you can't sample a trumpet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash Fieldpaint Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I keep seeing the line talking about the "average fan" and how they're not going to care what the source music is and they're not going to look it up. How does anybody here know what the "average fan" is? Who is the average fan? Some bumbling simpleton who want to hear loud bands play loud music loudly? Or are is it someone with a smartphone in their pocket that just happens to be connected to the sum of all knowledge of mankind. Maybe it's someone in between? Who is Joe McAverage? (Jose McAverage?) It's been said here that no one will bother looking up the source material. How do we know that? Maybe they will. This isn't the 80s, or 90s, or even the 2000s. Times have changed. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Your post is a gutless joke, get over it, my god. Ohhh kaaaay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DcFr3aK Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 It ought to be obvious that it takes more guts, is riskier, is braver, etc., to have singers perform live than to prerecord them. People on these forums have been arguing against the use samples for that very reason. Why should Crown be exempt from the same criticism other corps got before them? Each of the responses we've made to you, and the responses you've made to others in this thread seem very stubborn. They are being brave or they're not. Because they aren't making 4 of their brass players sing THE ENTIRE SHOW it's a "gutless" move. But our counter argument of the fact they are actually performing the vocal parts is a brave and bold move. I'm not trying to say Crown is void of criticism, it just feels like this is badgering for the sake of badgering. You dislike that they aren't singing everything. I get that, we all get that. Lets agree to disagree. You can't convince us and you can't convince us other wise. This show comes down to either you like it or you don't. We're each able to have our opinions, lets leave it at that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c mor Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Each of the responses we've made to you, and the responses you've made to others in this thread seem very stubborn. They are being brave or they're not. Because they aren't making 4 of their brass players sing THE ENTIRE SHOW it's a "gutless" move. But our counter argument of the fact they are actually performing the vocal parts is a brave and bold move. I'm not trying to say Crown is void of criticism, it just feels like this is badgering for the sake of badgering. You dislike that they aren't singing everything. I get that, we all get that. Lets agree to disagree. You can't convince us and you can't convince us other wise. This show comes down to either you like it or you don't. We're each able to have our opinions, lets leave it at that. I suggest this is a good spot for INT !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Each of the responses we've made to you, and the responses you've made to others in this thread seem very stubborn. They are being brave or they're not. Because they aren't making 4 of their brass players sing THE ENTIRE SHOW it's a "gutless" move. But our counter argument of the fact they are actually performing the vocal parts is a brave and bold move. Personally, I think it's fair to criticize the poor parts of an otherwise excellent program. Perhaps we should just agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 This show is definitely going to be polarizing. People will fall into either the love it or hate it camp with few left sitting on the fence. I wonder what type of posts we would have seen in these forums back in 1993 when Star Of Indiana debuted their "Medea" show? Many of the things that people complained about them doing then are now commonplace in today's programs. This activity is always in flux, always evolving. Will Crown's 2013 production be a pivotal moment in DCI's history or just a footnote? I don't know, but it's going to be a great summer of drum corps either way! I suggest going to BOA or WGI to see what this actually is on the field. There is really nothing groundbreaking about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DcFr3aK Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I suggest this is a good spot for INT !!! I agree! Lets take this thread to a new direction?! How does everyone see the ending changing? Do you think there will be a piece of music added that we all thought would be there? Or will they continue to develop on the eotb motif? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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