If BD Wins, We Riot!

[MikeD]

1. Fans have the right to boo.

Having the right to do something doesn't automatically mean you are right if you do it. Booing isn't a reflection on the BD or the judges; it is a reflection on the boorish behavior of the person doing the booing. Yes, they are witihin their "rights", but that in no way makes it "right". (IMO, anyway)

[Jeff Ream]

you are right about 2 things.....the masses don't visit this forum ( very little ) also if there were shows filled with a BD show attendance would plummet BUT the same would happen if there were shows filled with all corps being the same ( no matter what the show design is ). Who wants to see 12 or 20 of anything the same. Drum corps needs diversity, after all we do need hot dog and bathroom breaks..lol :smile:/>

you can have vastly different shows from corps to corps without producing "art"

[2muchcoffeeman]

GRRR....Clear to whom? For what level should a show be written? First graders? Doctoral students in music history? Somewhere in between?

You are mistaking clarity for simplemindedness.

Simple ideas are easy to communicate clearly.

Complex ideas are more difficult to communicate clearly. Takes more work. You get more "content" score for it if you do it well.

It was BD's choice to take on a complex idea. It's their responsibility to communicate their idea clearly. The fans have put their butts in the seat; they've done their part. Now it's BD's job to make their music and visual say something to us, to touch us somehow, to communicate. If they fail, it's on them, not us.

You can write a book and make all the claims you want about how you're not being "understood," but at the end of the day, it's the author's job to rewrite and edit and revise and do the hard work necessary to make sure he is understood. It's the responsibility of the artist.

EDIT:

This discussion reminded me of a scene in "Dead Poet's Society." I rooted around and dug it out. A wiseass kid in the class reads his poetry assignment to the class: "The cat sat on the mat." Keating responds, in part:

"I don't mind that your poem had a simple theme. Sometimes the most beautiful poetry can be about simple things, like a cat, or a flower or rain. You see, poetry can come from anything with the stuff of revelation in it. Just don't let your poems be ordinary."

Don't mistake simplicity -- clarity -- for shallowness. The simple can be profoundly moving. "Simple Gifts," anyone? Hemingway wrote simply, plainly. And deeply.

Edited July 30, 2013 by 2muchcoffeeman

[Jeff Ream]

DING DING!! We have a winner! WGI is as much to blame as any particular director of an organization on the field this year.

CM

blaming WGI as a whole is just as stupid as blaming DCI solely for why hundreds of corps folded.

if there is blame, it's the designers. They know how to max out the sheets, regardless of the circuit.

I still contend that if GE scores reflected an even balance of all of the triad of effect, you'd see change. But if you dabble in 2/3, but weight things heavily on the intellectual, you get big scores.

[MikeD]

I boo'd the score announcement in San Antonio

I've never been a BD fan, but I've never been a "hater" either.

Sorry, but those two statements are mutually exclusive. Yes, you are a "hater" if you choose to boo a corps performance and placement.

[GUARDLING]

blaming WGI as a whole is just as stupid as blaming DCI solely for why hundreds of corps folded.

if there is blame, it's the designers. They know how to max out the sheets, regardless of the circuit.

I still contend that if GE scores reflected an even balance of all of the triad of effect, you'd see change. But if you dabble in 2/3, but weight things heavily on the intellectual, you get big scores.

doesnt matter how you want to break sheets down Jeff ...even BITD when it may have been more balanced Visual was always inherent in all captions which gives it alot of power....if one likes that or doesnt like that.

Even way back in the drum solos days, there were outstanding drum solos people went wild over...do you actually think that everyone was going wild just for the drum line...that would be a no....there was always ( in some great corps ) and incredible visual whether the corps or guard was going on behind it which MANY were responding tothat.

We are a visual medium , thats the plain and simple of it. We want to be visually stimulated otherwise we can sit in a semi circle and just play.

You are right about designers maxing sheets out BUT I ask you ..why wouldnt they? Would they be doing their jobs if they didnt. Staff are paid and some very well to do a job. NOW that can mean something different to each corps which is also fine.

[MikeD]

The thing about booing is that it's the one thing you can do to express a negative sentiment from the stands and be understood. I assume if they met Dave Gibbs, they would ask him why he doesn't try to program more entertaining shows, suggest that the audience would love to see Blue Devils show what they can really do and win with a show that thrills the crowd, but that the last few shows just haven't been as thrilling. However, you can't yell that from the stands during score announcements.

Booing allows a person to remain anonymous and spew mindless vitriol at the BD, as opposed to actually meeting face to face with DG and discussing the BD show with him like a real adult.

Got it.

[Jeff Ream]

MANY times people get to wrapped up in the story..I think any show ( even with a story ) can come across if it has a few things.....Music that either holds interest, stimulates,has highs and lows etc etc, visually is stimulating either with design and or color, surprise factors etc etc. I think you get the picture. IF people get that from a corps, who the hell cares what the theme is or if I get it. If a show is written to depend on the theme to carry the thoughts out then someone isnt writing for all to get something out of it .

I personally believe if you get the theme or not there have been many shows that I didnt care what the theme was but loved the corps and what they did. FOR ME, thats the sign of a really good show. AND NO it doesnt have to be the toe tapping top 20 or the traditional things we may be used to or comfortable with in our activity ( not that those cant work either for some) JMO

The problem is shows are designed today that you HAVE to get it or you leave befuddled. I remember sitting in Allentown when SCV did the Devils Staircase show. I can't count how many people around me watched it, then said out loud "what the hell was that?"

shows are designed now that just absorbing the music or the visual doesn't work. every show has a theme and concept, which is announced before they start the show.....it's set up to force people to get it.

It doesn't have to be pop music or standards from the 40's. Many of the most beloved drum corps shows of all time featured music people didn't know, but the show was designed ina way musically and visually that it sucked people in. That doesn't happen now nearly like it used to

[GUARDLING]

you can have vastly different shows from corps to corps without producing "art"

depends on what you call art...which will be different from the next person...............besides whats wrong with art..some say even the simplest of shows is still a form of art. producing a musical and visual presentation...hmmm sounds like a form of art to me...even in a simple form

[Jeff Ream]

Hee hee hee...time warps are fun.

The "biggest issue you see happening," was actually happening decades ago. So much so that I wrote an article in, I think late 1990, for Drum Corps World where I addressed the numerous people screeching at the time that Star's Belshazzar's Feast show was too cerebral. "WHY DO THE HAVE THOSE THINGS WITH WRITING ON THEM?? WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH THE URNS?? CROWNS? WHO WEARS CROWNS?!!! WHY CAN'T THEY JUST PLAY AND NOT HAVE ALL THAT GARBAGE?!!"

My point was that I didn't know what it was either, so I looked up the stories behind the writing on the wall (which was not as easy pre-internet) and found it all very interesting, also learning that the original Walton piece had various sections devoted to the worship of different pagan gods (wood, metal, etc.), which was portrayed with sounds that Star also used. It was great. I learned something new and it made me enjoy the show even more.

Fast forward 23 years. Same issue. I didn't get Blue Devil's show at all at first, but I could see there must be a method to their madness. After a total of 20 minutes spent watching interesting talks by the designers and wonderful footage of the original ballet choreography, I've now been introduced to some great stuff I wasn't aware of. This is what I find enjoyable about this activity, and why it has pointed me to so much new music and history over the years. Corps that produce predictable performances year after year bore me beyond belief. I like shows that make me think. I find that fun, and I'm a paying fan too.

Somehow DCI managed to survive King Belshazzar, and they will also survive Rite of Spring.

has it survived? How many corps were there in 1990, and how many today? How many shows ran then vs today. How many went to shows then vs. today?

it's still here...and yeah technically it's survived. What it hasn't done is thrived.