Santa Clara's Flag Code Disrespect

[Kamarag]

[Cappybara]

Back in the olden days of drum corps, penalty judges used to earn their salary and occasionally handed out disqualifiers for such things as having another flag in front of the US or Canadian flags ("trail"), having a flag higher than the national standard flag, letting the national flag hit the ground, etc., etc.; all this followed protocols which were the force of law by the US Congress, the military, and the United Nations who set such protocols in manuals known as Flag Code.

Today in a world so wrought with world conflict and political correctness, those policies concerning national flags for the US and Canada have gone to the side for drum corps and are seen as inhibiting show designers' sense of art.

However, the question remains concerning Santa Clara's use of the French national tricolors as a flash flag which is tossed and spun during Les Mis. Consider the chagrin of the administration of the only competitive drum corps in France, from Brittany I think, who are here this week to view DCI East and DCI championships with the hope of bringing their young corps one day to Open Class championships or DCA's All-age.

Should there be penalties assessed?

One veteran T&P judge when queried Saturday retorted that it wasn't a violation against the American flag. Troopers and Bluecoats were using mock flags. But when challenged about the UN flag code which the US official law respects, the judge claimed ignorance and lack of awareness.

Now when Cadets did Les Mis, Bobby Hoffmann made sure to add a stripe of orange and then gold fringe so that it was obvious that the flag was not an official French flag. Ought not SCV have the same respect??? What if it were, let's say, the Dutch corps or Twaiwanese spinning an actual American flag? Would not sensitivities demand better T&P judging rather than the judge practicing hand signals to the judging box with his grandchild on the track? Professional standards for an international championship? I think our standards are slipping so to be coy and cute. Respect the standards of every nation, no SCV???

And the award for the worst troll on DCP goes to... DRILLTECH1. CONGRATS you win a free fake American Flag for your valiant efforts.

[bluesman]

This is not really a new issue. It would indeed improper and to some insulting if a real U.S. flag was grounded or not handled with respect. Or for that matter any other nations flag. But the representations of the flags that we see in Drum Corps are usually altered in a way to give the feeling of the flag but are not actual copies. We have seen a fair amount of patriotic shows that used close to, but not real national flags. Check out the ones used by Star '92, Cadets '2002, and Boston '2002. These shows used representations of the stars and stripes to great effect without any question as to whether it was improper or disrespectful.

Edited August 6, 2013 by bluesman

[cmhs59]

Like I said.

The worst flag violation at the Buffalo show last night was the presentation of colors during the singing of the Canadian and American National Anthems. The Canadian flag was on the left and then the Stars and Stripes and the a weapon. Completely reversed of what it should have been! NOTHING should be to the right of the Stars and Stripes except a weapon.

Santa Clara's flag(S) toss is great. I saw it in Erie and had my friends waiting for it in Buffalo. Everyone liked it.

I think some are over reacting to the Santa Clara feature. I can understand that some may be miffed but we can't expect DCI to know how every nation feels about their flag if they don't know our own flag code.

[snaredude08]

This is going to make some people apoplectic, but I've never really understood all of the ridiculous laws surrounding flags. It's a piece of cloth, not the actual populace and culture of a country. Then again, I also think that people who lose their minds over certain instances of breaking rank are kind of silly, too, so *shrug*.

[skywhopper]

The worst flag violation at the Buffalo show last night was the presentation of colors during the singing of the Canadian and American National Anthems. The Canadian flag was on the left and then the Stars and Stripes and the a weapon. Completely reversed of what it should have been! NOTHING should be to the right of the Stars and Stripes except a weapon.

Yeah, from what I've seen of the flag presentations at TOC shows (including one on here where the corps flags were all held higher than the Stars & Stripes), they don't seem to be too concerned about respecting the US flag.

Santa Clara's flag(S) toss is great. I saw it in Erie and had my friends waiting for it in Buffalo. Everyone liked it.

My favorite effect of the year!

I think some are over reacting to the Santa Clara feature. I can understand that some may be miffed but we can't expect DCI to know how every nation feels about their flag if they don't know our own flag code.

I assume all countries have similar rules surrounding their flags as the USA... at least, it seems that'd be a safe assumption. That said, I have no problem with whatever use SCV wants to put the French flag to, or Troopers or Bluecoats put an obvious representation of the American flag to. I find the bashing of the French to be pretty tired and frankly pathetic. The US would likely not exist in its current form if not for the French. They gave us the Statue of Liberty! But you know, we saved them, too, in the 40s so it's okay to be jerks about it!

[truman]

They start by firing red, then white, then blue flags from behind the wall. Fireworks like it is. Then they combine all colors, then a short delay, then this toss:

I was at the practices in Pottsville when they put this in. The guard actually worked a lot of the day on additions for only two tosses. This and the big flags at the end, so it hasn't been an issue all year. I do know for fact that the flags are placed standing up behind the walls for the whole show, until the toss. I cannot speak for what happens after they catch, however. Les Mis is a really more of a tribute to the French revolution and certainly honors the heritage of the flag. I don't see this as any kind of disrespect to France, and would bet most French citizens would consider this a pretty cool show!

[Absolutely Sweet Marie]

I think with Sal Salas' and Jeff Fiedler's combined knowledge of the rules pertaining to color guard and flag code, the possibility of any disrespect to another country was addressed long before the flags in question were actually incorporated into the show.

This is not their first rodeo.

[LakeBand]

We actually had a group of French people sitting around us in Allentown, and although they were only speaking French, and I couldn't understand what they were saying, they were only cheering and clapping at the end of the show. Either they didn't see the flags, or they didn't care. From their body language and frequent shouts of "WOW", I think they liked the show.

[Liahona]

Back in the olden days of drum corps, penalty judges used to earn their salary and occasionally handed out disqualifiers for such things as having another flag in front of the US or Canadian flags ("trail"), having a flag higher than the national standard flag, letting the national flag hit the ground, etc., etc.; all this followed protocols which were the force of law by the US Congress, the military, and the United Nations who set such protocols in manuals known as Flag Code.

Today in a world so wrought with world conflict and political correctness, those policies concerning national flags for the US and Canada have gone to the side for drum corps and are seen as inhibiting show designers' sense of art.

However, the question remains concerning Santa Clara's use of the French national tricolors as a flash flag which is tossed and spun during Les Mis. Consider the chagrin of the administration of the only competitive drum corps in France, from Brittany I think, who are here this week to view DCI East and DCI championships with the hope of bringing their young corps one day to Open Class championships or DCA's All-age.

Should there be penalties assessed?

One veteran T&P judge when queried Saturday retorted that it wasn't a violation against the American flag. Troopers and Bluecoats were using mock flags. But when challenged about the UN flag code which the US official law respects, the judge claimed ignorance and lack of awareness.

Now when Cadets did Les Mis, Bobby Hoffmann made sure to add a stripe of orange and then gold fringe so that it was obvious that the flag was not an official French flag. Ought not SCV have the same respect??? What if it were, let's say, the Dutch corps or Twaiwanese spinning an actual American flag? Would not sensitivities demand better T&P judging rather than the judge practicing hand signals to the judging box with his grandchild on the track? Professional standards for an international championship? I think our standards are slipping so to be coy and cute. Respect the standards of every nation, no SCV???

This is just truly one of the most idiotic posts of this season to try to slam SCV...It really takes the cake...or should I say Qu'ils mangent de la brioche.