GUARDLING Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 If show design diversity was really being rewarded as it applies to the GE word 'engagement' I would be right on board your wagon. But a very narrow view of the word 'engagement' (intellectual) is currently being rewarded above all other definitions (emotional, entertaining, comical, etc...) and that is the issue, imo, which needs to be resolved. well thats a matter of opinion isnt it..and also depends on what you consider engagement.....seems like there were several corps this year that engaged....may not be the way you like but nonetheless they did. Also just engaging doesnt mean good either or good at what they are doing. Theres plenty of corps that engage in the bottom 1/2 but in now way should be in finals... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 well thats a matter of opinion isnt it..and also depends on what you consider engagement.....seems like there were several corps this year that engaged....may not be the way you like but nonetheless they did. Also just engaging doesnt mean good either or good at what they are doing. Theres plenty of corps that engage in the bottom 1/2 but in now way should be in finals... Yes it is about opinion as it applies to the word 'engagement'; but it is the GE judging community's opinion of the word 'engagement', not the paying audience, that counts (as it applies to winning); which the Devils only seem to care about. And the GE judging community's opinion, based on the top GE scores given over the past few years, currently heavily leans toward and heavily favors the intellectual esoteric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Yes it is about opinion as it applies to the word 'engagement'; but it is the GE judging community's opinion of the word 'engagement', not the paying audience, that counts (as it applies to winning); which the Devils only seem to care about. And the GE judging community's opinion, based on the top GE scores given over the past few years, currently heavily leans toward and heavily favors the intellectual esoteric. theres that 2013 buzz word..esoteric..i love how many love using it...anyway....the paying audience differs from one place to another........Ive seen that many times through the summer...so does a judge just say..oh well tonight its corps A intead of corps B because the homers are engaged tonight..I dont think so...a judge has to also look at the criteria and score accordingly...As far as what the Devils care about...I wouldn't persume what they teach or don't or what they feel unless you or anyone has 1st hand knowledge.I actually do know how many of those kids feel as well as some staff But let people believe what they want. Many assume they know alot about many of the corps that have had nothing to do with them but have such strong opinions which they are entitled to , accurate? well thats another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonker Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 just curious.....how does this entire discussion equate to the topic of this forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashyUechi Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 I thought we were discussing staff changes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drilltech1 Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 I thought we were discussing staff changes. Will the posters be part of the staff changes to be changed or are they part of the BoD which keeps making the same mistakes?:ph34r:/> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 I thought we were discussing staff changes. just curious.....how does this entire discussion equate to the topic of this forum? Not reaching or justifying here, just explaining. The staff for the Blue Devils have not had the revolving door problem like all other corps; the staff of the Devils tend to produce 'winning' shows; a discussion on how the Devils staff have the unique ability to design shows based on the judges morphing interpretations of the wording on the sheets, while design teams in most all other corps tend to not be able to accomplish that, is relevant to the topic of The Staff Merrigoround. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 (edited) theres that 2013 buzz word..esoteric..i love how many love using it...anyway....the paying audience differs from one place to another........Ive seen that many times through the summer...so does a judge just say..oh well tonight its corps A intead of corps B because the homers are engaged tonight..I dont think so...a judge has to also look at the criteria and score accordingly...As far as what the Devils care about...I wouldn't persume what they teach or don't or what they feel unless you or anyone has 1st hand knowledge.I actually do know how many of those kids feel as well as some staff But let people believe what they want. Many assume they know alot about many of the corps that have had nothing to do with them but have such strong opinions which they are entitled to , accurate? well thats another story. The Devils staff design shows for a small select number of people (the judges, not the mass audience, but the judges). You scoff at our use of the word 'esoteric'. Hmmmm, let's look at the Webster's dictionary of 'Esoteric: - designed for or understood by the specially initiated alone; - requiring or exhibiting knowledge that is restricted to a small group; - difficult by many to understand; - limited to a small circle.' All of these definitions of the word 'esoteric' certainly do apply to the way the Devils shows have been designed since around 2007. You seem to think that I am knocking the Devils for that. While I dislike their 'esoteric' designed shows, I do commend them on their ability to stay in touch with the way the judges interpret the sheets; something most all others corps really cannot get a handle on thus the revolving door of the staff merrigoround. As for your scoffing at 'opinion'. Good grief; everything said, written, designed, composed, arranged within DCI, from the judges, to the design teams, to the audience, to the engagement, to the enjoyment, to the discussions (all of that combined) is merely 'opinion'. And here is where the Devils have a clue, the only 'opinion' that really matters as it applies to winning the WC are those of Czapinksi, Dillon, Carlson, Lo, Prosperie, and a select few others who wear green DCI shirts during DCI competitions. However, and here is where the Devils seem to currently miss the boat, as it applies to the financial survival of DCI the 'opinion' of the majority of the paying audience is what matters the most. Edited August 21, 2013 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 The Devils staff design shows for a small select number of people (the judges, not the mass audience, but the judges). You scoff at our use of the word 'esoteric'. Hmmmm, let's look at the Webster's dictionary of 'Esoteric: - designed for or understood by the specially initiated alone; - requiring or exhibiting knowledge that is restricted to a small group; - difficult by many to understand; - limited to a small circle.' All of these definitions of the word 'esoteric' certainly do apply to the way the Devils shows have been designed since around 2007. You seem to think that I am knocking the Devils for that. While I dislike their 'esoteric' designed shows, I do commend them on their ability to stay in touch with the way the judges interpret the sheets; something most all others corps really cannot get a handle on thus the revolving door of the staff merrigoround. As for your scoffing at 'opinion'. Good grief; everything said, written, designed, composed, arranged within DCI, from the judges, to the design teams, to the audience, to the engagement, to the enjoyment, to the discussions (all of that combined) is merely 'opinion'. And here is where the Devils have a clue, the only 'opinion' that really matters as it applies to winning the WC are those of Czapinksi, Dillon, Carlson, Lo, Prosperie, and a select few others who wear green DCI shirts during DCI competitions. However, and here is where the Devils seem to currently miss the boat, as it applies to the financial survival of DCI the 'opinion' of the majority of the paying audience is what matters the most. fine we agree but BD isnt responsible for the whole of DCI....you give 1 corps alot of credit...financially they seem to do just fine for themselves( BD).If someone isnt going to a show merely because of BD or design choices maybe they just need to stay home...as I said if there isnt enough " entertainment " then maybe that person needs to find a new hobby..1 corps cant do that , although the obsession with 1 corps is rampet , especially here......as far as the BUZZ word..it's funny how every year theres 1 word and the public lovesss to run with it in every sentance........lol..i know many who have used the word and I know would never in a million years know what it even meant until they saw it on line or others using the NEW BUZZ WORD......To be on topic....BD and a few others success longevity of a good staff has added to their success for sure , another reason some stay on top and others don't quite make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 (edited) fine we agree but BD isnt responsible for the whole of DCI....you give 1 corps alot of credit...financially they seem to do just fine for themselves( BD).If someone isnt going to a show merely because of BD or design choices maybe they just need to stay home...as I said if there isnt enough " entertainment " then maybe that person needs to find a new hobby..1 corps cant do that , although the obsession with 1 corps is rampet , especially here......as far as the BUZZ word..it's funny how every year theres 1 word and the public lovesss to run with it in every sentance........lol..i know many who have used the word and I know would never in a million years know what it even meant until they saw it on line or others using the NEW BUZZ WORD......To be on topic....BD and a few others success longevity of a good staff has added to their success for sure , another reason some stay on top and others don't quite make it. Since some have noticed that this could get shifted away from the thread topic, I will continue to relate this to staff stability. The Devils staff have been stable, not because they please the crowd, but because they please the judges. They write for the judges; they instruct toward the judges; they focus on winning the ring. Fine, if that is what they desire, and they do have 15 rings to show for it. And DCI is a competition; also fine. And other corps have been attempting to secure staff who can gel in the same manner as the Devils, causing the revolving door scenario, which I think is also fine. What I do not think is fine is that somewhere along the line those outside the esoteric (ie staff/judges), such as the majority of the paying audience, have gotten not only ignored but completely thrown out of the equation of design choices. Many corps design choices today, not all, but those who want to win seem to be bent on emulating how the Devils design toward the, true use of the word, esoteric (designs directed and written for a small group of select few, the judges). I am not going the 'it was better in my day' route here, but when the paying public, majority of which are not music or art majors, are treated at best as students to be educated by the 'high art' professors of drum corps, and at worse as completely irrelevant, something is skewed way out of proportion. Edited August 21, 2013 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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