Carolina Crown: Play charts that nobody else could play.

[SFZFAN]

You're either high as hell, or have never taught in the top 12. Either way, you're absolutely dead wrong. Spend a summer with a couple of those horn lines and reevaluate that statement.

Listen kid, even though this is DCP there are a few folks that don't think Crown was all that. They were good - but not that much better than the rest. Calling a person high is a great way to go about arguing a point.

[FTNK]

I will admit, I am high as hell.

[RContra]

Listen kid, even though this is DCP there are a few folks that don't think Crown was all that. They were good - but not that much better than the rest. Calling a person high is a great way to go about arguing a point.

Doesn't matter if you like them, they were good. Extremely good, and possibly the best-playing horn line DCI has ever had. There are objective means of assessment, and even though I'm just a "kid" (how do you know my age?), I'm also a guy with a D.M.A. who marched and taught in the top 6 within the last ten years, and knows a little something about music.

Not much better than the rest? I take it you're not a brass player. Either that or you were born without ears. Cadets and BD played extremely well, and I always enjoy the brass books of Bluecoats and Phantom, not to mention SCV's approach, but on a larger numerical spectrum, the spread between Crown and the others would have been much wider.

Characteristic, consistent sound. Clarity and consistent approach to articulation and dynamic contrasts. Blend and balance within individual choirs and the larger ensemble. These are just some of the objective qualities used in assessing a horn line. There isn't much room for argument against Crown.

And FTNK, I've got some Funions if ya want 'em...

[dcsnare93]

Doesn't matter if you like them, they were good. Extremely good, and possibly the best-playing horn line DCI has ever had. There are objective means of assessment, and even though I'm just a "kid" (how do you know my age?), I'm also a guy with a D.M.A. who marched and taught in the top 6 within the last ten years, and knows a little something about music.

Not much better than the rest? I take it you're not a brass player. Either that or you were born without ears. Cadets and BD played extremely well, and I always enjoy the brass books of Bluecoats and Phantom, not to mention SCV's approach, but on a larger numerical spectrum, the spread between Crown and the others would have been much wider.

Characteristic, consistent sound. Clarity and consistent approach to articulation and dynamic contrasts. Blend and balance within individual choirs and the larger ensemble. These are just some of the objective qualities used in assessing a horn line. There isn't much room for argument against Crown.

And FTNK, I've got some Funions if ya want 'em...

I'm of the same opinion, they're not on some entirely different plane from other corps that scored around them. I'm no brass player, but I do have ears, and came to that opinion using the "objective qualities" you've laid out. I also happen to know "a little something about music" too, for whatever that's worth. Regardless, I enjoyed the show and was happy with their placement.

And some unsolicited advice... a little less ad hominem would go a long way.

[FTNK]

Appropos of nothing, I was dating a horn-playing DMA student (who George gave a contract to on the spot when she was in HS 10 years ago) here in July and played Crown for her...she said they should win hands down. Which, they did. I'm not attacking Crown's ability musically, more their show overall conceptually.

[RContra]

I'm of the same opinion, they're not on some entirely different plane from other corps that scored around them. I'm no brass player, but I do have ears, and came to that opinion using the "objective qualities" you've laid out. I also happen to know "a little something about music" too, for whatever that's worth. Regardless, I enjoyed the show and was happy with their placement.

And some unsolicited advice... a little less ad hominem would go a long way.

Maybe you've just got to be a brass player to get why they're on such a different level. Maybe I stated my case incorrectly... I'm trying to stomp out the ad hominem with facts. Opinion doesn't factor into how good Crown is. I know music, but I wouldn't try to tell someone why 2012 BD and Bluecoats should or shouldn't have been as close/far apart in scores because while I have some experience on snare, I don't know the ins and outs of percussion as a professional in that realm would. We can all wax poetically about Crown's book, but unless you've got serious expertise in exactly what they do, it's tough to have a valid criticism.

[garfield]

I LOVE drum corps!

[garfield]

well.....the style of writing is, IMO, not what most do today, so in a way, yeah it is the issues. I'll explain:

Hannum leaves no room for error. So if there is error, boom, they're toast. I'm talking field level. If the percussion sheet were upstairs, totally different game.

I don't think the book needs to be thicker in terms of more black on the page....it needs to be performed at a much higer level. I get that it works upstairs.

And yes he writes a book that supports the brass....but...most others today write a book that's an equal partner to the brass, not just a supporting role.

and IMO, some simple adjustments to the book probably could have cleaned things up enough downstairs to improve that number without hurting the big picture.

An "equal partner" reflects a corps that's balanced enough to showcase all lines. But it could also equally mean writing to showcase the drums ends up being an education in technical ability instead of a supporting role for the show overall. Crown's drum feature, particularly in meter separation, was outstanding to my ear; the percussive sideline voices made it all that much better, IMO, for all of you who hated the narration, and tied the drum line to the original Eotb theme.

It's interesting to hear you say that Hannum's book left no room for error. This year's book was remarkably less demanding, IMO, than Cadets and, after watching them both live more than once and after watching plenty of lot videos, it's clear to me that the chance for muddying-up the execution was much higher with the drum lines above Crown. I've always contended that an open, exposed drum book, done well, is just as impressive as a complicated black-smudge of notes on the page. That's where Hannum excels to my ear, because his writing makes sense with the show theme and what the brass is playing. I love an intense drumline, but I like a cohesive, musical presentation that supports the show theme even more. That, to me, is where Hannum's writing was top notch, even if the execution was 6th place.

You again say "...some adjustments on the field..." but I hear that from every drum line. Every corps can make adjustments to improve their field or box scores, so I don't see how Crown is exceptional in that this year.

[Jeff Ream]

An "equal partner" reflects a corps that's balanced enough to showcase all lines. But it could also equally mean writing to showcase the drums ends up being an education in technical ability instead of a supporting role for the show overall. Crown's drum feature, particularly in meter separation, was outstanding to my ear; the percussive sideline voices made it all that much better, IMO, for all of you who hated the narration, and tied the drum line to the original Eotb theme.

It's interesting to hear you say that Hannum's book left no room for error. This year's book was remarkably less demanding, IMO, than Cadets and, after watching them both live more than once and after watching plenty of lot videos, it's clear to me that the chance for muddying-up the execution was much higher with the drum lines above Crown. I've always contended that an open, exposed drum book, done well, is just as impressive as a complicated black-smudge of notes on the page. That's where Hannum excels to my ear, because his writing makes sense with the show theme and what the brass is playing. I love an intense drumline, but I like a cohesive, musical presentation that supports the show theme even more. That, to me, is where Hannum's writing was top notch, even if the execution was 6th place.

You again say "...some adjustments on the field..." but I hear that from every drum line. Every corps can make adjustments to improve their field or box scores, so I don't see how Crown is exceptional in that this year.

you're right....the book was less demanding...hence no room for error. Stuff that should be clean from a program at that level wasn't. If you're playing the insanity that was in a beautiful way Cadets book, you have room for error as things clean up and build all season. Crown from the get go wasn't doing that well on the sheet, and as everyone around them got better, the seperation became clearly evident.

The fact is, from repeated views all summer and word passed through the lot...nothing changed, just like last summer. Stuff I saw them rep for an hour in person in July of 2012 was just as dirty when I saw it live a week before finals. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and ovr again and expecting different results.

True, their FE was underrated.

I find SCV's book, IMO, the musical of the 3 talked about in terms of how it fit the overall package, and it was an equal voice. brass had their moments, percussion had their moments, and together they did some wonderful stuff. Cadets, pretty close 2nd. Crown, I see the drumline only having their time so the brass could catch breath, Yeah they had insane physical and listening responsbilities. So do all of the top 6/7 corps...listen to J's tape of SCV where he talks about "lining up with the tuba part all the way the hell over there".

Again...move the drum sheet upstairs, Crown does much better. Then again, moving the drum sheet upstairs makes it worthless in that or any enclosed stadium

[Delta05]

Drum corps isn't just a brass workshop for music majors where the goal is to play the most obtuse and strange things on the planet; it's also performance and entertainment medium. It seems like so many want it to be some extreme extension of Concert band season. If that's the case, just ground the brass and create some modern form of brass band. I think I see what you're trying to say, but that's not their focus. That's BDs focus.

I don't care what keys these corps play in. I don't care what intervals any of these corps play. As long as it's done well and isn't boring and makes sense, I just want to enjoy the show. You know, all that subjective stuff that we all argue about.

I tend to agree with this viewpoint. While I appreciate lines that play ridiculous charts and am in no way saying non-music majors can't play (I mean, I wasn't a music major), it does feel like some people wish it was more for kids that are.