Fred Windish Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 DCI's apparent decisions to makeover its product into something more 'BOA-like' is certainly curious. The DCI directors see something in adopting a model that already exists. In other words, what DCI provides is no longer enough. I know very little about BOA (never attended an event) other traditional band circuits, WGI, etc. But, evidently something is there. What is it? Is the BOA organization flush with revenue? Do thousands of spectators throng to local BOA shows? Do BOA member groups rake in a fortune on souvies and audio/video products? Are those events events broadcast regularly? Do corporate sponsors heap funds upon that group, more so than they do DCI? I understand adding new instrumentation will open DCI to new layers of musicians, but what else? I still plan to purchase a DCI Fan Network subscription this year but firmly believe the morphing is not over with this latest change. (from a 63 year old dino) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAZZER Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 go to musicforall.org for some info. bottom of home page has sponsors listed DCI is one of the sponsors of Music for All btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 DCI's apparent decisions to makeover its product into something more 'BOA-like' is certainly curious. The DCI directors see something in adopting a model that already exists. In other words, what DCI provides is no longer enough. I know very little about BOA (never attended an event) other traditional band circuits, WGI, etc. But, evidently something is there. What is it? Is the BOA organization flush with revenue? Do thousands of spectators throng to local BOA shows? Do BOA member groups rake in a fortune on souvies and audio/video products? Are those events events broadcast regularly? Do corporate sponsors heap funds upon that group, more so than they do DCI? I understand adding new instrumentation will open DCI to new layers of musicians, but what else? I still plan to purchase a DCI Fan Network subscription this year but firmly believe the morphing is not over with this latest change. (from a 63 year old dino) In the event that you're legitimately looking for conversation and not trolling, I'll bite. DCI has seemingly been on a creative path the last several decades to tweak their model in order to 1) be as inclusive as possible without fundamentally changing their design identity (brass, percussion, guard, lots of visual stuff) 2) be as free to design stuff w/little or no inhibitions without fundamentally changing their design identity. I honestly think all of these decisions are based on the two above principles, and if DCI allows woodwinds that would still be the above (minus the identity thing). The identity part is a little suspect, as I and others would argue a drum corps' identity isn't instrumentation, but more in the excellence, innovation, and the myriad of aspects involved with being a marching member on tour (the familial aspects, bonding, history, etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Fred's not a troll. But to many insturmentation IS part of the identity...which is why every additional addition is polarizing. does BOA bring in the $$$ like DCI? I don't know, what does their 990's show? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingusmonk Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) People constantly dropping references to an imminent DCI / BOA merger are just about nuts. I don't know the 990's, but I do know that the business models are significantly different. I'm not saying it could never happen, but there would have to be a huge shift in the way that one or the other does business. Having similar instrumentation would be a tiny tip on a huge iceberg of operational and strategic practices hidden underneath the surface. Edited February 11, 2014 by mingusmonk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Fred's not a troll. But to many insturmentation IS part of the identity...which is why every additional addition is polarizing. does BOA bring in the $$$ like DCI? I don't know, what does their 990's show? I'm Busy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 Definitely not a troll. Most of my life has been heavily involved in preserving this wonderful activity. I'm just confused. The message I get from the changes of the past few years is this " Unless we become a closer copy of what these other organizations are doing, we're dead. " I'm not clear on the overwhelming benefits that are gained, as opposed to what would have been gained if similar transformations had been done, say 15 years ago. I truly hope I am blown away by what's ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Fred's not a troll. But to many insturmentation IS part of the identity...which is why every additional addition is polarizing. If that's the case DCI has been screwy from the get go: * G bugles * G bugles with valve/piston * G bugles with two valve * G bugles with three valve * any key brass * snares with plastic heads * snares with kevlar, high tension heads * legit tenor drums * trios * quads * quints * sixes * a few large bass drums * tonal bass drums * cymbal lines * no cymbal lines * nothing but marching drums * some keyboards marched via carriers * some timpani marched via carriers * some grounded percussion + some marching keys * ground percussion * expansion of percussion to pretty much anything-goes * mic'ed percussion * synths Instrumentation has been influx since the beginning. So really, people identify with instrumentation THEY relate better to, as opposed to some sort of standardized instrumentation. As of this season at least, DCI is still all brass, percussion, and color guard. That basic fundamental instrumentation hasn't changed, and people are getting bent out of shape at this point (especially not knowing HOW this change may or may not be implemented) over very little substance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus67 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Instrumentation has been influx since the beginning. So really, people identify with instrumentation THEY relate better to, as opposed to some sort of standardized instrumentation. As of this season at least, DCI is still all brass, percussion, and color guard. That basic fundamental instrumentation hasn't changed, and people are getting bent out of shape at this point (especially not knowing HOW this change may or may not be implemented) over very little substance. That's not quite accurate. Most of the examples you provide are variations on a theme (quads to quints, bugles to valved, etc.) with the obvious exceptions of things like amplification and keyboards. The addition of trombones, french horns, and sousaphones is, at best, a tangent to brass development in drum corps rather than part of that evolution of existing instrumentation. It's one thing to advocate for instruments to be added, but I don't think it's accurate to say doing so is part of some natural state of flux in drum corps. Edited February 11, 2014 by Rufus67 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 If that's the case DCI has been screwy from the get go: * G bugles * G bugles with valve/piston * G bugles with two valve * G bugles with three valve * any key brass * snares with plastic heads * snares with kevlar, high tension heads * legit tenor drums * trios * quads * quints * sixes * a few large bass drums * tonal bass drums * cymbal lines * no cymbal lines * nothing but marching drums * some keyboards marched via carriers * some timpani marched via carriers * some grounded percussion + some marching keys * ground percussion * expansion of percussion to pretty much anything-goes * mic'ed percussion * synths Instrumentation has been influx since the beginning. So really, people identify with instrumentation THEY relate better to, as opposed to some sort of standardized instrumentation. As of this season at least, DCI is still all brass, percussion, and color guard. That basic fundamental instrumentation hasn't changed, and people are getting bent out of shape at this point (especially not knowing HOW this change may or may not be implemented) over very little substance. Perc2100, You must be a percussionist! The way you've answered above, your screen name, and other postings on here; it's obvious that you don't see things the way that a horn players would! I really REALLY disagree with you. Drum and Bugle corps has ALWAYS been about the brass' instrumentation. That's what gives/gave these groups their unique sound compared to other ensembles such as British brass bands or even the closely related marching band. I love the French horn and tbone sound; they obviously fit well into the brass choir. We could already get those colors using the marching versions of these horns. With tubas, the sousaphone (brass, not plastic) is pretty unnecessary but I'm not sure they fit into the look of corps... Percussion has always been more flexible in this regard. Adding mallets made sense. Making logical adjustments with types of drum heads or grounding a tympani didn't doesn't change the fundamental sound of the groups until we started adding synths. That changed the sound of the whole corps ensemble. Bands, corps, and other groups' percussion have always had different "toys" from one group to another. The same is not true for corps brass lines... It's gotten to the point that having flugel horns in the hornline is considered exotic. For instance, it was something that the Crossmen could do that would make them sound different than other groups. So I believe that people are more okay with percussion changes than they are with brass changes. When people define drum corps in the context of being about dedication, quality, familial bonding, "the experience", and all of that, it makes me think of The Marines, the Boy Scouts, fraternities and sororities, or even the NFL players... These things aren’t unique or specific to Drum and Bugle corps but we could describe them this way as well. ...and as far as quality, there are some high school bands that are better than some corps. Are those high school bands now corps? What made Drum and Bugle corps unique was its specific brass voicing. It’s what makes brass bands unique. Strings make string quartets unique. Anyway, I'm finding it difficult to really care about this topic too much other than for morbid curiosity. I’m curious to see how this all ends. Also I keep wondering why the powers that be want to keep adding instruments to the activity while neglecting already legal equivalents. Also, it's interesting to see how people justify their decisions with nonsense on both sides of this issue. I think this is going to be the year I don't renew my FN/BR combo or go to any shows. I'll check out bootleg Youtube and see how things go from there. If the shows are ok, maybe I'll support DCI later. I dunno. There’s certainly lots to do in California besides DCI... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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