zachariaswmb Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 The reason you have less complaints about " NCAA Basketball " compared to " DCI Drum Corps " complaints is primarily because "NCAA Basketball from the 70's and 80's) ( that you alluded to here ) has changed very little from that timeframe to today. On the other hand, Drum and Bugle Corps of the 70's has had a radical transformation that is unlike the breadth, scope, etc of the changes in " NCAA Basketball from the 70's and 80's " compared to that of today. Heck, everybody agrees that " NCAA Basketball " is still the game of basketball here in 2014, as it was in the 70's. We'd be hard pressed on the other hand to get universal agreement that DCI units are still " Drum & Bugle Corps ". So naturally, there are much more complaints heard about DCI from those fans from the 70's, 80's. That simplyy goes with the territory of embracing such a radical transformation of the activity.... especially when we want to compare this with the sports competition realm and the comparatively absent complaints about the activity itself found in these other growing fan base activities. Now having said all this, I take no position on the rightness or wrongness on this thread of these frequently heard complaints. Thats not the purpose of my reply remarks here. I'm just trying to expain the WHY of it on this thread, thats all... and why we often see and hear much higher levels of complaints on this activity when compared to the " NCAA Basketball " fanbase realm that you want to compare the DCI fanbase complaint levels with. Are you aware that, before the '85-'86 season, there was no shot clock? Or that, before the '86-'87 season there was not three point shot? I would say those are pretty fundamental changes. Can you imagine basketball today without a shot clock or a three pointer? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Is this yet another online suicide I have had enough so I have to tell everyone how I feel instead of just not going? Bless yer heart. I think its fair to say that the thousands of once loyal fans that have left this activity, left quietly, Yes, some went out guns ablazin', with what you'd call " suicide notes ". But for context, even the G-7 Power Point Presentation of 2 years ago had the Movers and Shakers that adopted all these radical changes admitting publically that the activity is now precariously close to its own deathbed watch if it can not turn itself around in the coming years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) Are you aware that, before the '85-'86 season, there was no shot clock? Or that, before the '86-'87 season there was not three point shot? I would say those are pretty fundamental changes. Can you imagine basketball today without a shot clock or a three pointer? Oh please,..... don't go down this road and embarrass youself by saying the the changes in NCAA Basketball from the 70's, 80's to that of today, are similar in depth, scope, degree, etc of the changes in Drum Corps from the 70's. 80's to that of today. Good grief, in order for that comparison to work, NCAA Basketball from the 70's to today would have had to have added 3 baskets on each side of the court ( 6 in all ), with different sized baskets, with different points given for scoring in each, widened the court to much bigger length and width, added 4 players on the court ( for a total of 14 ), moved the free throw stripe to the side for free throws, and abandoned the basketball for a water polo sized ball to pass and shoot, and eliminated the dribble altogether. Only then, could you then make an analogy of the level of change compared with the 35 years of change in DCI. Now.... if NCAA Basketball adopted these changes I just listed here, would we see and hear lots of NCAA Basketball fans complaining about todays NCAA Basketball with this levels of radical transformation ? Of course. Would they lose lots of former fans if they did this ? Of course they would. It goes without saying. Would that level of NCAA get new fans that like the changes I just listed ? ( or similar changes ? ) ? Probably. Would the newer fans of this adequately replace in numbers the ones who no longer consider this " basketball " ? Not a chance, imo. NCAA Basketball, would find itself in the same precarious position as DCI now finds itself, imo. Edited March 23, 2014 by BRASSO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Also, the replies you will get are (1) it was always marching band, (2) it is still drum corps, (3) "excellence" is the distinction, An activity that has radically changed to the point that you entertain serious discussions about changing its name is an activity that either never knew what it had, or was so panicked that it sold its soul to try to survive. And in the process it lost a large following. And many people can't handle that, so they would rather everyone just stop talking about it. That's probably because those three replies are correct. It's always been marching band, just at a much higher level without the woodwinds. The "serious discussion" about the name change only occurred here, it had nothing to do with DCI. They seem very content with their name, because they know it's still drum corps. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Oh please,..... don't go down this road and embarrass youself by saying the the changes in NCAA Basketball from the 70's, 80's to that of today, are similar in depth, scope, degree, etc of the changes in Drum Corps from the 70's. 80's to that of today. Wow, what a well thought-out, not condescending tone…. And yes, the three point shot was a massive sea change in basketball. Completely changed the way people played the game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 This. Also, the replies you will get are (1) it was always marching band, (2) it is still drum corps, (3) "excellence" is the distinction, (4) why can't you just go away? 1), 2) and 3)....exactly true. 4) is up to you. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Good grief, in order for that comparison to work, NCAA Basketball from the 70's to today would have had to have added 3 baskets on each side of the court ( 6 in all ), with different sized baskets, with different points given for scoring in each, widened the court to much bigger length and width, added 4 players on the court ( for a total of 14 ), moved the free throw stripe to the side for free throws, and abandoned the basketball for a water polo sized ball to pass and shoot, and eliminated the dribble altogether. you literally described quidditch. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) you literally described quidditch. Well to stay with the analogy, the game of "quiddich " depicted here would still be the the game of "basketball", no ? ( stated here by me tonque in cheek ) if we are to apply the same standards that 2013' Drum Corps" is still the 60's/ 70's " Drum Corps ". Would NCAA Basketball fans complain here in in 2013 if we had this picture above in the NCAA Tournament this week and still calling this the game of " basketball " above ? Of course they would. Many would certainly complain that this is not the game of " basketball ". Many of them also would have silently left as fans of " basketball " as well if this picture here was adopted for the game of " basketball" in the last 35 years and if this pic is what was seen in the NCAA Tournament this week... Thats why NCAA Basketball, insofar as its comparison to the changes in Drum Corps in the same 35 year time frame, is best known for its absence of changes, not for its radical changes in which it is almost indistinquishable from its former incarnations of itself from earlier eras. The notion that the " 3 point shot " change adopted by basketball is in any manner comparable to the changes undergone in Drum Corps is of course, just plain ridiculous. Only if this " 3 point shot " is shot with a water polo ball that replaces the basketball from the 70's basketball, could a like kind comparison of change in the game of" basketball" from the 60's/ 70's to today be realistically compared with the breadth, depth, scope. etc of the changes from the 60's/ 70's Drum Corps to today's Drum Corps. The instrument of competition in the game of men's basketball has not fundamentally changed in weight, size, composition etc, since the 70's. Can we say the same about the instrument of competition in Drum Corps from the 60's/ 70's to what has been adopted for today's competition ? Of course not.. Not all " change " is the same. There are cosmetic changes, and changes in scoring of points in competition and such. And then there is the picture here above of " radical changes " in the format from earlier era play. If the picture above used a water polo ball to shoot to score points at these 3 baskets, is it still the game of " basketball " ? You tell me. So thats why we have earlier fans of Drum Corps so dismayed, as it appears that " Drum Corps " has been" quiddiched" for too many of them and many have left, while a few hang around to complain to us about it on here. Edited March 24, 2014 by BRASSO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 That's probably because those three replies are correct. It's always been marching band, just at a much higher level without the woodwinds. The "serious discussion" about the name change only occurred here, it had nothing to do with DCI. They seem very content with their name, because they know it's still drum corps. ..and we'll continue to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 you literally described quidditch. Which isn't even a real game and I would bet he did it on purpose. Still funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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