The Inevitable Woodwind

[BRASSO]

Brasso, surprisingly, you want to freeze drum corps' progression at some arbitrary point.

And at what historical point have you concurred from my comments above that I want to " freeze Drum Corps progression " ? And how do you arrive at a position that all change is " progression ", anyway ?

I've never stated even once on DCP that I want to " freeze Drum Corps at some point in time". So I really can't reply to something I've never stated, nor actually believe. I've merely commented with my obervations and assessments of these changes ( both good and bad ) that has taken place over the years, thats all. So maybe you have me confused with some other poster on here that has commented that they wanted Drum Corps" to freeze in place" ( which is silly unto itself, as there has never been any period of time in its history that Drum Corps has not " changed " ) I have commented on here that when we discuss the " changes in Drum Corps " over the last 50 years, that one would be hard pressed to name a single other youth competitive endeavor ( or " sport " as some now want to call this ) in the world that has undergone the degree, the breadth, the depth,the scope, the transformation etc of " Change " than has taken place in Drum Corps the last 50 years. And this comment is made without judgement made with any comment by me of " good or bad " re. these wholesale changes right now too, just a comment on the level of the size of degree and scope of all these " changes "., thats all. So I hope this misunderstanding of yours re. my comments is more clarified for you with my additional remarks now on this.

Edited April 10, 2014 by BRASSO

[garfield]

I found a picture of the first-ever drum corps! But Brasso, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you!

OK, this has gone too far! This pic is NOT a drum corps.

The artist who painted this, Archibald Willard, painted the original of this in my hometown of Wellington, Ohio.

My father was the spearhead who took this portrait, and Willard's other works, on a national tour to celebrate the country's bicentennial in 1976. I, personally, crated and un-crated the original many times as it traveled across the country. My mother's grave is three graves down from Willard's in Wellington.

I learned Willard's life story, and the motivation that prompted this work. It had NOTHING to do with "drum corps".

I have several prints of Willard's originals hanging in my home, and I have a photo of my father presenting a set of Willard's prints to President Gerald Ford.

What does all of this mean? Nothing at all, except that the Spirit of '76 does NOT depict a drum corps.

[troon8]

OK, this has gone too far! This pic is NOT a drum corps.

The artist who painted this, Archibald Willard, painted the original of this in my hometown of Wellington, Ohio.

My father was the spearhead who took this portrait, and Willard's other works, on a national tour to celebrate the country's bicentennial in 1976. I, personally, crated and un-crated the original many times as it traveled across the country. My mother's grave is three graves down from Willard's in Wellington.

I learned Willard's life story, and the motivation that prompted this work. It had NOTHING to do with "drum corps".

I have several prints of Willard's originals hanging in my home, and I have a photo of my father presenting a set of Willard's prints to President Gerald Ford.

What does all of this mean? Nothing at all, except that the Spirit of '76 does NOT depict a drum corps.

BOOM!

There's got to be a convenient word for when you get schooled by someone who unbeknownst to yourself turns out to be a seriously expert authority.

Or maybe it's just schooled. ;)

[quietcity]

OK, this has gone too far! This pic is NOT a drum corps.

The artist who painted this, Archibald Willard, painted the original of this in my hometown of Wellington, Ohio.

My father was the spearhead who took this portrait, and Willard's other works, on a national tour to celebrate the country's bicentennial in 1976. I, personally, crated and un-crated the original many times as it traveled across the country. My mother's grave is three graves down from Willard's in Wellington.

I learned Willard's life story, and the motivation that prompted this work. It had NOTHING to do with "drum corps".

I have several prints of Willard's originals hanging in my home, and I have a photo of my father presenting a set of Willard's prints to President Gerald Ford.

What does all of this mean? Nothing at all, except that the Spirit of '76 does NOT depict a drum corps.

Wait, because you personally crated a painting makes you an expert on the painting's subject matter? Thats a new one. Maybe if I crate some bio-chemistry textbooks, I will find myself a biochemist.

And if the scene depicted is not a primordial form of drum corps, please then explain to me drum corps' true history. Because from my understanding, drum corps grew out of military traditions, such as that depicted in the painting.

Finally, geez, what a kill-joy.

[Fred Windish]

Wait, because you personally crated a painting makes you an expert on the painting's subject matter? Thats a new one. Maybe if I crate some bio-chemistry textbooks, I will find myself a biochemist.

And if the scene depicted is not a primordial form of drum corps, please then explain to me drum corps' true history. Because from my understanding, drum corps grew out of military traditions, such as that depicted in the painting.

Finally, geez, what a kill-joy.

That's a consequence of participating in a discussion group, quietcity. You opened up a 'window' and someone walked in.

As for the painting, my guess is, 90% of literate Americans would say it depicts a Fife & Drum Corps.

[garfield]

Wait, because you personally crated a painting makes you an expert on the painting's subject matter? Thats a new one. Maybe if I crate some bio-chemistry textbooks, I will find myself a biochemist.

And if the scene depicted is not a primordial form of drum corps, please then explain to me drum corps' true history. Because from my understanding, drum corps grew out of military traditions, such as that depicted in the painting.

Finally, geez, what a kill-joy.

Well, no, crating and un-crating his portraits didn't make me an expert on Willard. But learning his life's history and the motivation behind this work to tell the story dozens of times around the country, most certainly did. I even know the names and relationships to each other of the three subjects in the painting. There are only a few things in this world that I can be called an "expert" in, and Archibald Willard happens to one of them due to the sheer coincidence of my father's efforts to celebrate the bicentennial. Nothing more. I'm not an art museum curator, I didn't study art, and I'm not a personal friend of Willard's heirs. But yes, I know just about everything there is to know about this, and Willard's other, works. Sorry if that bursts your example bubble.

Just because you see two drums in a portrait does not bolster your case about the history of drum corps. This portrait was done in the early 1870's. "Drum & Bugle Corps", as we know it today, was spawned in the early 1920's but didn't know popularity until the end of WWII in the mid-1940's.

I get the point you're trying to make with Brasso, but improper references detract from your argument, not bolster it. This reference is as inaccurate to your case as you can be.

Neanderthals banged on animal-hide drums when it was still OK to drag your mate by the hair into your cave. Are you saying that's the genesis of drum corps?

[Fran Haring]

Let's not bicker and argue over who killed who....

[quietcity]

Well, no, crating and un-crating his portraits didn't make me an expert on Willard. But learning his life's history and the motivation behind this work to tell the story dozens of times around the country, most certainly did. I even know the names and relationships to each other of the three subjects in the painting. There are only a few things in this world that I can be called an "expert" in, and Archibald Willard happens to one of them due to the sheer coincidence of my father's efforts to celebrate the bicentennial. Nothing more. I'm not an art museum curator, I didn't study art, and I'm not a personal friend of Willard's heirs. But yes, I know just about everything there is to know about this, and Willard's other, works. Sorry if that bursts your example bubble.

Just because you see two drums in a portrait does not bolster your case about the history of drum corps. This portrait was done in the early 1870's. "Drum & Bugle Corps", as we know it today, was spawned in the early 1920's but didn't know popularity until the end of WWII in the mid-1940's.

I get the point you're trying to make with Brasso, but improper references detract from your argument, not bolster it. This reference is as inaccurate to your case as you can be.

Neanderthals banged on animal-hide drums when it was still OK to drag your mate by the hair into your cave. Are you saying that's the genesis of drum corps?

So drum corps just sprung up de novo in the 1920s? Like, some drum corps just sort of spontaneously self-generated in a field in New Jersey? This sounds like an immaculate conception, a virgin birth, so to speak. I am astonished. This is amazing news.

And perhaps it was not clear to you, but my posting of the picture was, how do you say in your language, a JOKE. I was just teasing Brasso, who was apoplectic at the thought of flutes being used in drum corps. Sheesh, nothing kills a joke like having to explain it. I will type more slowly for you in the future.

[garfield]

So drum corps just sprung up de novo in the 1920s? Like, some drum corps just sort of spontaneously self-generated in a field in New Jersey? This sounds like an immaculate conception, a virgin birth, so to speak. I am astonished. This is amazing news.

And perhaps it was not clear to you, but my posting of the picture was, how do you say in your language, a JOKE. I was just teasing Brasso, who was apoplectic at the thought of flutes being used in drum corps. Sheesh, nothing kills a joke like having to explain it. I will type more slowly for you in the future.

Well, yeah, actually, but I guess I thought you'd know that. Drums and bugles in the parade format was born at the end of WWI. VFW, CYO and all those, you know.

I corrected your usage of an example in a rather feeble attempt to make Brasso laugh, and I taught you a little about what your evidence represents and, even about its artist that makes you wrong. If you can't see that there are no bugles in that portrait, then Brasso's doomed to ever make his point. Sorry if I ticked you off; I'd rather you humbly admit your error, learn something, and say thanks. I'm sure there's another piece of evidence you can use to poke Brasso that's more accurate in context.

I got the context of your "joke" just fine, but I'm curious how you typing slower will help me read your words. Perhaps better evidence is all that's necessary.

Lighten up, Lucy, my post was meant in the exact same tone as yours was.

Did you know that Wellington, where Archibald painted the original "Spirit", was also the cheese capital of the midwest back in history? My dad owned a building in town that (still) has the word "Cheese" carved in sandstone at the top cornice.

Cheese and Archibald Willard. Funny, huh? I never learned that much about cheese because we didn't take it on the road.

Now Neanderthals, I don't know much about them. I'm sure you'll find some evidence there to make your amused point to Brasso.

[perc2100]

OK, this has gone too far! This pic is NOT a drum corps.

The artist who painted this, Archibald Willard, painted the original of this in my hometown of Wellington, Ohio.

My father was the spearhead who took this portrait, and Willard's other works, on a national tour to celebrate the country's bicentennial in 1976. I, personally, crated and un-crated the original many times as it traveled across the country. My mother's grave is three graves down from Willard's in Wellington.

I learned Willard's life story, and the motivation that prompted this work. It had NOTHING to do with "drum corps".

I have several prints of Willard's originals hanging in my home, and I have a photo of my father presenting a set of Willard's prints to President Gerald Ford.

What does all of this mean? Nothing at all, except that the Spirit of '76 does NOT depict a drum corps.

Either way that end snare drummer looks a little shocked at his mates: definitely an over-age infraction going on I think...