Jeff Ream Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Agreed, but it depends on how much faith you have in the various corps to look at the balance sheet before the judges sheet. :) Mike HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh you were being serious HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Regarding the budget and woodwinds, one of the arguments regarding the allowing of B-flat brass instruments centered on durability and that they were meant for indoor use which would mean higher maintenance costs, a comment that always arises in the Key of G/B-flat debate, but I have heard some involved claim that maintenance costs have not increased. Keep in mind these are casual debates without facts and figures, but don't most corps replace instruments annually, or at least those in WC? Also, when it comes to cost, the woodwinds most likely to be used: clarinets, saxophones, and flutes cost less than most brass instruments. As anyone involved in elementary education that has music programs, the popularity of flutes and clarinets is in many cases price. It's much easier to convince a skeptical parent to invest in a clarinet or flue than a more costly instrument. Oboes and bassoons are more costly, and a bass clarinet is probably somewhat pricey, and while I've seen an occasional oboe and bass clarinet, I've never seen marching bassoons, marching buffoons maybe (I couldn't keep in step, so I know there were a few of these), but not marching bassoons. If the number of marchers increases from 150, then there would be cost issues, but if the number remains the same, it may be less costly. Now I know a broken woodwind can be expensive to repair. I tried to copy a move I saw at the 1976 CYO Nationals (a move by the Muchachos if memory serves me correctly). I was enthralled with what I saw, and knew I could do it. As I attempted the move in the privacy of my backyard, the clarinet slipped out of my hand, went flying in the air, and hit the stone wall. So I know clarinet repairs were expensive in the 70's and would be more so now, but it would have been worse if it had been a trumpet, and like I said, there are marching buffoons. I am not someone who wants to see woodwinds in drum corps, but cost and maintenance will probably not make a difference as far as a rule change is concerned. Edited March 22, 2014 by Tim K 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Regarding the budget and woodwinds, one of the arguments regarding the allowing of B-flat brass instruments centered on durability and that they were meant for indoor use which would mean higher maintenance costs, a comment that always arises in the Key of G/B-flat debate, but I have heard some involved claim that maintenance costs have not increased. Keep in mind these are casual debates without facts and figures, but don't most corps replace instruments annually, or at least those in WC? Also, when it comes to cost, the woodwinds most likely to be used: clarinets, saxophones, and flutes cost less than most brass instruments. As anyone involved in elementary education that has music programs, the popularity of flutes and clarinets is in many cases price. It's much easier to convince a skeptical parent to invest in a clarinet or flue than a more costly instrument. Oboes and bassoons are more costly, and a bass clarinet is probably somewhat pricey, and while I've seen an occasional oboe and bass clarinet, I've never seen marching bassoons, marching buffoons maybe (I couldn't keep in step, so I know there were a few of these), but not marching bassoons. If the number of marchers increases from 150, then there would be cost issues, but if the number remains the same, it may be less costly. Now I know a broken woodwind can be expensive to repair. I tried to copy a move I saw at the 1976 CYO Nationals (a move by the Muchachos if memory serves me correctly). I was enthralled with what I saw, and knew I could do it. As I attempted the move in the privacy of my backyard, the clarinet slipped out of my hand, went flying in the air, and hit the stone wall. So I know clarinet repairs were expensive in the 70's and would be more so now, but it would have been worse if it had been a trumpet, and like I said, there are marching buffoons. I am not someone who wants to see woodwinds in drum corps, but cost and maintenance will probably not make a difference as far as a rule change is concerned. The cost that I have mentioned has little/nothing to do with the purchase of new instruments. I'm talking about the maintenance of said instruments, the fragility of said instruments that are a significant chunk out of the budget at my school, the not-preferable conditions the instruments would be placed in on a regular basis (outside in hot, humid environments for long periods of time daily, rainstorms, etc). When I marched in the late 90's, I would say in a good season maybe once a week we would get caught in either rehearsal or show out in a rain storm (note - my corps toured in the east, mid-west, south, and even as far west as Denver). Sometimes we would get caught in a rain storm several days in a row. Could some of that have been avoided with staff canceling rehearsal outside and staying inside? Probably, but that's the thing with brass & percussion: they can be in rain and the only concern is for member safety & changing drum heads - that would certainly not be the case with woodwinds. And that is just taking account rain, not insane humidity that engulfs the US in the widest, east, and south. Like I mentioned before, a group I taught was in the Rose Parade a few years back when it POURED. The next day, literally every single woodwind needed to go in for repair, and just the instruments owned by the school/school district cost several thousands of dollars: I have no clue how much all of the student-owned clarinets, flutes, and saxes cost! And that was after ONE DAY: a day not super uncommon during a drum corps summer (from spring-training to Finals). Others have said that perhaps the directors could absorb the costs of constant repair/upkeep of woodwinds: or perhaps directors won't care about those costs and will instead focus more on what designers could achieve. They might very-well be right. Or perhaps someone like, say, Yamaha will take those messed up instruments, swap them out for brand new instruments for the corps on a regular basis, and resell them as refurbs. I don't know. I do know that in my experience teaching HS Band there are a myriad of problems with woodwinds: far more, IMO, than electronics. I don't think those problems are as easily reconcilable, though DCI could prove me wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I would love to be able to refute some of perc2100's claims, not because I question his knowledge, but because we're talking about weather related issues, and after two summers with unexpected and at times constant deluges, along with coming off a winter where at one point I believe at least 46 of the 48 continental United States has snow or freezing temperatures at some point, I don't want to think about rain and summer, but where summer rainfalls can be tropical in nature and fast and sudden, it probably could wreak havoc on woodwinds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Others have said that perhaps the directors could absorb the costs of constant repair/upkeep of woodwinds: or perhaps directors won't care about those costs and will instead focus more on what designers could achieve. They might very-well be right. Or perhaps someone like, say, Yamaha will take those messed up instruments, swap them out for brand new instruments for the corps on a regular basis, and resell them as refurbs. I don't know. I do know that in my experience teaching HS Band there are a myriad of problems with woodwinds: far more, IMO, than electronics. I don't think those problems are as easily reconcilable, though DCI could prove me wrong. Bring on the WW...I have been teaching and judgin HS MB since 1971, in all sorts of weather, and IMO with intelligent planning they could be used by drum corps just fine. Looks like we don't agree on everything! However, I don't think they are as close to being allowed as some here think, as there doesn't seem to be a groundswell of support by the instructors, let alone the directors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seen-it-all Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Well, there's one way to know for sure if woodwinds are on their way or not. Ask Lady Gaga. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Well everything we need for this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9muzyOd4Lh8&feature=kp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 WW work just fine outdoors. IMO some of the negatives posted are magnified by people who don't want them in the first place. Would there be times when you might want to put them away in a rehearsal, in bad weather, for example? Sure, just like with the electronics. Not a big deal to me. It happens with 10's of thousands of bands today. As for the 'why' of today...the students play clarinet, sax, flute, etc...in a scholastic setting, why would they not play their chosen instrument in both marching and concert band? Some do change, of course, but not in huge numbers. Properly arranged, WW can add a lot to a wind arrangement. Personally, as much as I would like to see an "Anything Goes" division in DCI, I don't see it happening very soon. I hope I am wrong, but outside of one or two directors, there doesn't seem to be much of a push for it, and none at the instructor level as far as I can tell (but maybe others know better than me on that). I played tenor sax all through high school and snare in corps. I don't see any problem with asking kids to learn and become proficient at a second instrument to be able to participate in the activity. It will only benefit them in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) yup. the whispering started with any key brass, got louder with amps because everyone knew electronics was right around the corner after that....now all that's left is woodwinds. it will happen. Not sure when, and when it does, well, I'll spend my money elsewhere. Add the woodwinds... the flutes, the saxophones, the trombones, trumpets, clarinets, , sousaphones, tubas, tall pointee hats, etc It'll still be a " Drum Corps ". How so ?... because DCI decides to call it a " Drum Corps ", thats why . And whatever they decide to call a unit with flutes, clarinets, trumpets, trombones, saxophones, tubas, tall pointee hats, dancers, singers, keyboards, synths, etc... keep in mind that its still really not a " Marching Band " at all. Its a " Drum Corps ". Because they said so. And that makes it so... dontcha know ? Edited March 26, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I played tenor sax all through high school and snare in corps. I don't see any problem with asking kids to learn and become proficient at a second instrument to be able to participate in the activity. It will only benefit them in the end. I think that is great when people do that. Learning multiple instruments is a big life skill for people going into music education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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