BRASSO Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) Useless comparison information, as the rules between the two were different. Then why bring up the comment... as you did above... that prior to DCI there was not " vigorous change "with declared champions ?.., now that your comment was refuted entirely as both inaccurate, selective,... and apparently irrelevent as you now are reduced to claiming in hindsight, YOU brought up the decade of pre DCI of the 60's for the comparison to today.. not me. Now you want to declare this period as a comparison that apparently can't be made as the period had different rules both among the two Vet groups as well as with that of today. That sure looks like a flip flop now to me. But whatever. Edited April 2, 2014 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Facts can be such messy things.. ok, here goes: There were approx. TWICE as much " vigorous change" in Championship winners just prior to DCI than what we find today in DCI Corps winning championships. That is my comment, and here is the supporting detailed facts to support the comment. ( that some posters here now ask for in " verification " with my commentary, but ask few others for THEIR " verification " to support THEIR commentary for whatever reason) But anyway..here goes: There were lots of shows just prior to DCI that claimed " National Champions ", but conventional understanding is that just 2, the VFW Nationals and the American Legion Nationals, could legitimately claim the mantle back then of " National Champion ", so I utilized just these 2 to demonstrate TWICE the " vigorous change " in garnering the mantle of " National Champion ". : From 1960 to 1970, this decade found 8 Corps claiming " National Champion " status winning one of the Championships... more telling is that in this 10 year period right before DCI, in 8 of these 10 years, a DIFFERENT Champion was declared in the VFW than in the AL, despite the fact that in 8 of these years, both of the declared winners competed in both Championships vs, one another, but the other came out on top that year in the other National Championship competition..... Contrasting the 8 different winners in this period, we find that in the last decade in DCI of 2003 to 2013, we find that DCI had 5 different Corps winning championships, and if we utilized the period of 2000- 2010, we find just 4 different Corps winning the Championship, and with just 3 Corps winning 9 out of 10 of the DCI Titles in this time period. Summary conclusion :... just prior to DCI, ( the decade YOU chose to highlight, not me ) there was approximately TWICE the number of " vigorous change " in Championship winners than what we find in DCI today. FWIW, were the exactly criteria the same on the AL and VFW sheets? Were the judges the same? I honestly don't know, but the vast majority of circumstances in life are very rarely as black and white as we like to think. I know even in the DCI era there have been several pretty radical sheet/criteria changes over the years, let alone design trends, and what won DCI in the 80's would have difficulty competing in 2014. Also, obviously judging can be fairly inconsistent from judge to judge: what I might score an 85 another judge might score a 78. Those are ballparkish ratings, but could drastically change rankings from one contest to another. Again, I'm not partaking in this argument; I'm merely pointing out that there are MANY factors and facts that involve far more than just looking at historical placements & scores and making an assertion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 FWIW, were the exactly criteria the same on the AL and VFW sheets? Were the judges the same? I honestly don't know, but the vast majority of circumstances in life are very rarely as black and white as we like to think. I know even in the DCI era there have been several pretty radical sheet/criteria changes over the years, let alone design trends, and what won DCI in the 80's would have difficulty competing in 2014. Also, obviously judging can be fairly inconsistent from judge to judge: what I might score an 85 another judge might score a 78. Those are ballparkish ratings, but could drastically change rankings from one contest to another. Again, I'm not partaking in this argument; I'm merely pointing out that there are MANY factors and facts that involve far more than just looking at historical placements & scores and making an assertion. From what I undestand different judging criteria then as VFW had a 'czar' who didn't want change and AL had to be drug kicking and screaming to add points to the GE scores in the mid 60s or so. As for corps at AL/VFW think it was the AL who had Nationals at Seattle in the early 60s. Only a few non-west coast corps showed up (guessing) because of travel costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 If memory serves me, VFW was less GE than the AL and there was always the Tony S. factor during his VFW years as Czar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 None of your reaction to my posts have been very important. This is DCP; merely a blog/chat site for those interested in discussing aspects of the drum corps activity. Our debates have no real impact, they are just a way to transfer information and opinions between interested parties. None of our posatings, not a single one, not even a posting by you, is really important. However, the way a posting is structured, especially when a phrase is left out to create a contextual implication which was not there, and that posting is intended to be a part of an ongoing debate, the way that posting is structured 'is' important to the debate. They deflect us away from not just whatever I was trying to convey, but the entire thread context. You were just going off on a tangent. The deflection was in you using my words out of context by omitting a phrase I used which changed the context of my position. And the name of this thread is, "What Defines our Activity"; so debating the definitions on whether or not DCI drum corps are Marching Bands is not going off on a tangent, but certainly is germane to the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quietcity Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 It seems that "What Defines Our Activity" is arguing. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Well, 'most' corps members are not 'staying home and playing Nintendo'...they are, on average, young college-aged students who are working their butts off all year long, and if they can't march their dream corps, they will focus on "real life". Most drum corps youth are hard workers in whatever they do; that is a truism. However, contrary to popular academic thought, College and University are not ‘real-life’ either. As for Nintendo, many of those games are mentally tough; and if you have ever played Wii many of those will give you a physical work-out. So when college-age youth engage in them they are usually working hard too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 It seems that "What Defines Our Activity" is arguing. If the activity is DCP then a resounding Yep!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 It seems that "What Defines Our Activity" is arguing. Heh. Good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exitmusic Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 It seems that "What Defines Our Activity" is arguing. Also, "Adults acting like children." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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