BRASSO Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) Because excellence attracts talent, not necessarily winning. The scores are a result of excellence, so the two happen to line up, but if Crown were still hitting on all cylinders in brass land and getting 4th overall at Finals (as they did a few times), I still think the kids would come in droves to audition for that hornline. .... and its true in Percussion as well. If you're not in the upper tier in the World Class Division in Percussion, nobody is beating down the doors to get into your Percussion section compared with the Percussion sections in the other upper tier Corps. You have to somehow find a way to kick in that door and knock the door off its hinges to break thru and get a reputation for being top tier in Percussion ( or in Guard for that matter ) When I think of Brass excellence I think immediately of Crown ( Percussion excellence, The Cadets, ( or BD ) and Guard excellence, the Blue Devils .) Edited June 19, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BbTrpt1 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) getting elbowed by my own horn sergeant when he thought I was playing octaves when video revealed it was the Blue Knights lead guys C'mon, you know it was you!!! I was there and clearly heard you doing it! Edited June 19, 2014 by BbTrpt1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrownLeadSop Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) C'mon, you know it was you!!! I was there and clearly heard you doing it! Ahaha you and I both know there is video of me being elbowed by Chad, taking the horn off my face and the note still going. It was great, because it was like.. the dawn of camera phones. Space-age technology, at the time! I did it a number of times, but that was not one of those times. Texas with the Blue Devils in 07? Uhh, yeah, maybe I had something to do with that. :) Edited June 19, 2014 by CrownLeadSop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCI-86 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (I know the answer to this but) why is there so much hype about groups, that are then a let down when they first perform. A few pages back someone was saying that Cavaliers will be top 3-4 this year after viewing them - for them to come 4th and look more likely in the 6-10th range. Lots of hype about Madision but from watching the videos they seem really behind (esp the guard). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (I know the answer to this but) why is there so much hype about groups, that are then a let down when they first perform. A few pages back someone was saying that Cavaliers will be top 3-4 this year after viewing them - for them to come 4th and look more likely in the 6-10th range. Lots of hype about Madision but from watching the videos they seem really behind (esp the guard). I have a feeling that SCV is being just as overhyped solely because everyone else has seemed average to them so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 This is interesting. I know DrumManTX is a Troopers fan. I'm not taking him to task. I hope he will forgive me for using his post as an example. I just happen to be fascinated by the "theme conundrum" that eternally entraps the Troopers. First, I find the need for a theme baffling. I watched Cavies last night and enjoyed them, but there was nothing "Immortal" about their show. I would have liked the show just as much if I had never even known its name. There's a part of the show that is kinda dark and hallowing and death-like. Quite the opposite of immortal. Should the judges mark them down for that? "The Music of Stan Kenton and Don Ellis" isn't even a theme. It's a label. Know what? No one in the stands is going to care; they're going to enjoy Madison peeling back their skin. Spirit plans a show called "Magnolia." Will it be about flowers? Doubt it. Will fans care? Nope. BD is doing "Felliniesque." Consider Fellini -- a man whose art is the essence of the undefinable. How can you even know if BD's program accurately captures the theme? They could juggle live chickens while blowing bubbles on unicycles, and it would qualify as "Felliniesque." And everyone will love it. No one will look sideways at them and say "Well, that's not QUITE Felliniesque . . ." To bring this back to Troopers, consider last year. "Magnificent 11" wasn't a theme, unless you think sprinking a few visual "11" cues into the drill constitutes a theme. From a programming standpoint, it was a collection of Troopers Hits well done. "Magnificent 11" wasn't a show theme; it was an announcement. So why was it on everyone's Top 3 list of favorite 2013 shows? Because it wasn't "This Was the Future." It wasn't the 2012 show, which attempted to bring the theater music of Aaron Copland to the field. For 2013, Troop hauled in an all-star staff, got back to its DNA in a big and unabashed way, and the drum corps world ate it up. It's the same approach Madison took after their 2009 "Relampago" misadventure. They brought in much of the same all-star staff, got back to Madison Scouts basics and rocketed back into serious contention. The same could be said for Spirit. They've come back to their baby-blue, deep-South jazzy showmanship, and are headed straight up the charts. This year, Madison is doubling down, to great expectations. This year, Spirit is doing the same, right down to unis that take a deep bow to the 1970s. People love the Scouts and SOA idendity, and each corps wisely plans to give the crowds heaping double-scoops of it this year. Working from the same playbook, Troopers came back from their 2013 success and built a 2014 show around some great American music. "The Ramparts" was commissioned by the U.S. Air Force Academy. "Lincoln Portrait"? "America the Beautful"? It's a show dripping with Troopers DNA, just like 2013, only with more sophisticated drill and musical writing. Yet the questions already are beginning: What is this show about? What is it about? It's about quality American music, performed well. Same as it ever was. What other corps is as handicapped by remaining faithful to its identity? Must the Troopers perform a "This Was the Future" show every other year so they can win back the hearts of fans in the intervening years? In the very same post, DrumManTX observes this about the Cadets, whose show has the mile-wide theme of "Promise: An American Portrait": "t was just a nice Cadets Americana show, nothing new, but what's wrong with that?" Indeed. There's nothing wrong with that. The question is why it's fine for Cadets, yet somehow a shortcoming for Troopers. The Troopers ARE a theme. The uniform tells you all you need to know. I understand the need for a show to have cohesion, to have a sense of connectedness from beginning to end. But (execution issues aside) I'm perplexed by the double standard of applauding a corps who throws a pile of music together under a name like "Immortal" or "Magnolia" or "Tilt", while at the same time prosecuting a corps for not making it obvious enough what it means by "A People's House." Again, DrumManTX, love ya, man. You just touched on a subject that I think lies at the root of the challenges that face Troopers year in and year out. "Well, that's not QUITE Felliniesque . . ." This got me. Before we've seen the show, we can predict that this talking point will be at the center of many conversations around here this summer. It will be said aplenty. Speaking of which, I wonder if Madison is wearing a simple white undershirt under that white jacket. You know... A plain T. Now, as far as themes go, I think corps sometimes create the implication that there will be some kind of meaning to a show, and then if there isn't, it bothers people. Crown has done this in an interesting way; by keeping the same uniform style as last year, along with several other elements, it's reasonable to assume that their show will have some kind of deep message as interesting and mysterious as last year's Einstein-Love-Infinity concept. At this point in the season nobody got it. Then people thought about it, they reworked and cleaned the show, and eventually people were rewarded with some kind of understanding. I believe people may want the same thing from them this year, and they may not get it. This show may just be fun in space. Have they set the bar too low conceptually this year? Or are they planning something deeper than we see? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Flores Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Hi y'all...it's been a while 😊 Was it smart to drive 3.5 hours to see the show, problem not, but totally worth it. Here's a photo album on Facebook from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 https://www.facebook.com/anthony.flores.982/media_set?set=a.673455976064205.1073741833.100001994269931&type=1 Enjoy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) Now, as far as themes go, I think corps sometimes create the implication that there will be some kind of meaning to a show, and then if there isn't, it bothers people. It might seem odd to some people ( not referring to you here ), but yes, thats how it seems to work. Corps create a theme... tell us in press releases what the storyline will be,... then yes, when in performance, if it fails to communicate that intended theme meaning, its not surprising to most people anyway that this does rankle, frustrate or it generally "bothers people". Edited June 19, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumManTx Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) This is interesting. I know DrumManTX is a Troopers fan. I'm not taking him to task. I hope he will forgive me for using his post as an example. I just happen to be fascinated by the "theme conundrum" that eternally entraps the Troopers. First, I find the need for a theme baffling. I watched Cavies last night and enjoyed them, but there was nothing "Immortal" about their show. I would have liked the show just as much if I had never even known its name. There's a part of the show that is kinda dark and hallowing and death-like. Quite the opposite of immortal. Should the judges mark them down for that? "The Music of Stan Kenton and Don Ellis" isn't even a theme. It's a label. Know what? No one in the stands is going to care; they're going to enjoy Madison peeling back their skin. Spirit plans a show called "Magnolia." Will it be about flowers? Doubt it. Will fans care? Nope. BD is doing "Felliniesque." Consider Fellini -- a man whose art is the essence of the undefinable. How can you even know if BD's program accurately captures the theme? They could juggle live chickens while blowing bubbles on unicycles, and it would qualify as "Felliniesque." And everyone will love it. No one will look sideways at them and say "Well, that's not QUITE Felliniesque . . ." To bring this back to Troopers, consider last year. "Magnificent 11" wasn't a theme, unless you think sprinking a few visual "11" cues into the drill constitutes a theme. From a programming standpoint, it was a collection of Troopers Hits well done. "Magnificent 11" wasn't a show theme; it was an announcement. So why was it on everyone's Top 3 list of favorite 2013 shows? Because it wasn't "This Was the Future." It wasn't the 2012 show, which attempted to bring the theater music of Aaron Copland to the field. For 2013, Troop hauled in an all-star staff, got back to its DNA in a big and unabashed way, and the drum corps world ate it up. It's the same approach Madison took after their 2009 "Relampago" misadventure. They brought in much of the same all-star staff, got back to Madison Scouts basics and rocketed back into serious contention. The same could be said for Spirit. They've come back to their baby-blue, deep-South jazzy showmanship, and are headed straight up the charts. This year, Madison is doubling down, to great expectations. This year, Spirit is doing the same, right down to unis that take a deep bow to the 1970s. People love the Scouts and SOA idendity, and each corps wisely plans to give the crowds heaping double-scoops of it this year. Working from the same playbook, Troopers came back from their 2013 success and built a 2014 show around some great American music. "The Ramparts" was commissioned by the U.S. Air Force Academy. "Lincoln Portrait"? "America the Beautful"? It's a show dripping with Troopers DNA, just like 2013, only with more sophisticated drill and musical writing. Yet the questions already are beginning: What is this show about? What is it about? It's about quality American music, performed well. Same as it ever was. What other corps is as handicapped by remaining faithful to its identity? Must the Troopers perform a "This Was the Future" show every other year so they can win back the hearts of fans in the intervening years? In the very same post, DrumManTX observes this about the Cadets, whose show has the mile-wide theme of "Promise: An American Portrait": "t was just a nice Cadets Americana show, nothing new, but what's wrong with that?" Indeed. There's nothing wrong with that. The question is why it's fine for Cadets, yet somehow a shortcoming for Troopers. The Troopers ARE a theme. The uniform tells you all you need to know. I understand the need for a show to have cohesion, to have a sense of connectedness from beginning to end. But (execution issues aside) I'm perplexed by the double standard of applauding a corps who throws a pile of music together under a name like "Immortal" or "Magnolia" or "Tilt", while at the same time prosecuting a corps for not making it obvious enough what it means by "A People's House." Again, DrumManTX, love ya, man. You just touched on a subject that I think lies at the root of the challenges that face Troopers year in and year out. First of all, no offense taken, not angry, ect. If I ever meet you sounds like we need a bro hug. :big hug: This board's all about sharing opinions, and in you did that in a very classy and well stated way I must add, so kudos to you! Yes, I am a big Troopers fan, 2011 and last year ring off as two of my favorite shows I've seen. I think maybe I should have reworded what I said. I'm trying to think of how to say this, not really sure how to, kind of one of those intangible things. Last years show, even in its earlier stages, had a sense of direction, a sense of flow in design that wove the whole show together and heightened the musical and visual experience, they took the title, and built around it with Magnificent 7, Old Western Music, and an Old School Battle Hymn closer. The show to me had a theme, and that was just portraying what the Troopers are all about, and a little bit of a throw back to where they have come from and an arrow ahead to where they want to go. The show last night, was fantastically arranged, drill design was great, and it was performed greatly. But it lacked that continuity and sense of direction that last years had, I felt like the intro and the closer had this, but the middle 8 and 1/2 minutes didn't have that. I think most shows have a theme in some sense, in it's dictionary definition a theme is "a unifying or dominant idea, motif, etc., as in a work of art". Shows nowadays just have that sense of continuity that unifies the whole show and brings what they are trying to do across, and I didn't feel that in Troopers show last night. Now can they change that? SURE AND YES! The structure of this show is great and they are obviously very talented, it just needs that unifying factor and additions that make me think, THAT is an Abraham Lincoln show! Just like last years made me say THAT is a Western show! You brought up what I said about The Cadets, their show had that continuity, it was obviously a presidential Americana show, without the narration I would have got that. I'm not saying that Troopers need to go the route of 2012 where they tried to portray a specific thing, or Madison 2009 where they tried to make a superhero story line show, those are VERY thematic, almost too much so. They just need to take what they're doing, and make some adjustments in the design that make me say wow what a great patriotic show! A theme doesn't have to be super specific, Madison this year is Jazz, that's still a theme to me, a very loose one, but it will work for them! Like I said, I think the intro and closer are already doing this upon second viewing, just get that middle part down and they're a finalist. Hope I make sense. Edited June 19, 2014 by DrumManTx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (I know the answer to this but) why is there so much hype about groups, that are then a let down when they first perform. A few pages back someone was saying that Cavaliers will be top 3-4 this year after viewing them - for them to come 4th and look more likely in the 6-10th range. Lots of hype about Madision but from watching the videos they seem really behind (esp the guard). It's gotten worse thanks to the internet. Fans have all winter to claim that Corps X "is way ahead of last year", and is going be "in the top 5 for sure", and Staff Member Y has "turned everything around" in Caption Z. The cruel reality is that in June, most corps look like a group who's just learned their show in the last couple of weeks, and perform about the same as last year's kids did in June. Rather than being surprised that the hype was wrong, turn it around: who has lived up to their hype so far this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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