DCImonkey Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 But did you enjoy it, and look back on it with fondness? If the answer is yes, then the corps was successful. Of the 3 corps I marched.... It was the MOST FUN I ever had. I loved that summer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 I agree about education. Look at Racine Scouts last year - 12ish brass about 10 perc and 2 guard (although battery & brass helped out on occasion). Those kids learned about perseverance in the face of adversity. That is the kind of lesson that Drum Corps should teach (IMHO). Where's...my...duct tape... Question: Do you think BD teaches perseverance? Is a near-bottom-placed corps what the activity wants to hold up as the model of perseverance? Just so I'm clear of your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdm Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Where's...my...duct tape... Question: Do you think BD teaches perseverance? Is a near-bottom-placed corps what the activity wants to hold up as the model of perseverance? Just so I'm clear of your point. Actually yes, a near bottom place corps who consistently puts a show on the field for decades, is one of the things the activity should be holding up. It shows that at any level, a person can participate. Racine scouts have been in existence since 1927, and keeps going, while other high fliers have flown and burned out in a few years. Racine scouts, and other small corps like them, should be celebrated more, because of their perseverance. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) I really don't see Crown as a problem and certainly not THE problem One of the most crowd pleasing and popular Corps most years, who has undoubtedly brought many new fans and supporters into the activity. The thread is an epic failure to find someone or something to blame. Edited July 20, 2014 by George Dixon 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctrain08 Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 This thread is funny......especially coming from a guy that has an avatar of the ONE corps whose best and most exciting moment this year is created by a synthesizer and not actual musicians. Don't like ballet? Blame Cadets 87. Don't like Neon colors? Blame the 80's Don't like Trampolines? Ok you got us there. (didn't Star use them though?) Don't like laying on the ground? I guess you hate Bridgemen Change is good HockeyDad SAME is bad Same is boring Same is why wives cheat on their husbands Same is what keeps Pioneer in 22nd You're right about the Bluecoats this year, and there are many other corps who are doing similar things to Crown as well. Just because they're doing stuff I don't like doesn't mean I'll ever stop being a fan. All the corps, including Crown, have great moments in their shows...which makes the synthesized stuff even more distracting. You're also correct in that corps have done goofy stuff going all the way back to the 70's and 80's. However, Crown has taken it to a whole new level and just happens to be leading the way right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) I do think that for an activity that everyone claims is about the kids and how they perform, the increasing use of electronics and amplification for the most part actually takes away from the kids' chance to show their stuff. Pre-recorded narration, dead-simple synthesizer parts that overpower or replace the brass, soundboard guys adjusting the mix in real time. None of these things give the performers on the field an opportunity to demonstrate *their* skills. Instead, they are entirely about the skills of the designers. For me, that makes the live performance itself less interesting and less vital. It takes away the performers' own sense of accomplishment. The larger part of a DCI performance these technologies become,the less the music is being produced by the members themselves. I cannot see how that trend is a positive change for the activity. If you really want voice, let the kids do the narration live. If the pit needs amplification, set the levels during a pre-show soundcheck and then leave the dynamics to the performers. Want to use synth? Write a part that requires the same level of musicality and skill demanded of the brass and percussion players (see Crown 2011 for an appropriate example). Two-finger synth parts are an insult to the audience and the performer. I think what you're saying about synth players is more insulting than anything else. It doesn't matter how complicated the synth parts are they ALWAYS require a high level of musicianship and performance quality to execute precisely every time. Not every synth player is a virtuoso but it doesn't mean they aren't talented or that what they are doing doesn't require skill! Designers since the beginning have been an integral part of the activity. And how a show is designed, how the parts are written, are always on display and really the only reason we enjoy a performance. If the design is bad, the kids would not be able to show off anything so I don't see how bashing the designers gets your point across. The designers have been and will always be the most important element to getting the performers to show-off their skills in DCI. Electronics are not just about dynamic manipulation. They also dramatically change the kind of sound qualities that are heard from the pit. Setting one level for an entire show would NOT allow for the entire dynamic and textual opportunities of the pit to be heard or be in balance with the rest of the corps. The electronics facilitate greater musicianship and dynamic control and are NOT used as a "crutch" for lazy designers/performers. If a pit does not have good balance/dynamics/touch no amount of amplification/electronic adjustments will make them sound better. Maybe you don't understand that performers actually benefit from electronics and allow for them to TRULY show their stuff. And its surprising how you use Crown 2011 as a positive example of electronics enabling a performer while at the same time suggesting that electronics inhibit the performer... Edited July 21, 2014 by charlie1223 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) And so I say to Carolina Crown and all other Corps who are becoming Carolina Crown: STOP IT. PLEASE. You're killing me. I can't take it anymore. What you are doing is the antithesis of drum corps. It's almost as if you are now TRYING to make the traditionalists angry. If you want to know the truth... Crown told me they love when you complain online so much they dedicated their entire pre-show body movement to you. The drumline even has a vocal "c - train - 0 - 8" right before they plie. Doesn't seem right, but just wanted to let you know that you hit it right on the nose... They absolutely wanted to get you angry and they are very happy with the result. #### kids! Edited July 21, 2014 by charlie1223 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Making traditionalists angry is fun. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I think what you're saying about synth players is more insulting than anything else. It doesn't matter how complicated the synth parts are they ALWAYS require a high level of musicianship and performance quality to execute precisely every time. Not every synth player is a virtuoso but it doesn't mean they aren't talented or that what they are doing doesn't require skill! Designers since the beginning have been an integral part of the activity. And how a show is designed, how the parts are written, are always on display and really the only reason we enjoy a performance. If the design is bad, the kids would not be able to show off anything so I don't see how bashing the designers gets your point across. The designers have been and will always be the most important element to getting the performers to show-off their skills in DCI. Electronics are not just about dynamic manipulation. They also dramatically change the kind of sound qualities that are heard from the pit. Setting one level for an entire show would NOT allow for the entire dynamic and textual opportunities of the pit to be heard or be in balance with the rest of the corps. The electronics facilitate greater musicianship and dynamic control and are NOT used as a "crutch" for lazy designers/performers. If a pit does not have good balance/dynamics/touch no amount of amplification/electronic adjustments will make them sound better. Maybe you don't understand that performers actually benefit from electronics and allow for them to TRULY show their stuff. And its surprising how you use Crown 2011 as a positive example of electronics enabling a performer while at the same time suggesting that electronics inhibit the performer... I think you're reading things into what I said that aren't there. I'm asking that if we use electronics, let's use them well. In regards to Crown 2011, that was an excellent use of synth that required a talented pianist and provided him with a challenging part. However, the vast majority of synth usage out there today is *not* challenging for a skilled piano-keyboard player. I don't think it's insulting to ask that synth players are asked to be as proficient with their instrument as the brass players are. As for the dynamics and amp levels, you and I have disagreed on this in the past. I've been unfortunate enough to sit near staff micromanaging the mix via radio from high in the stands. This is taking the blend and balance completely out of the hands of the pit performers. I think that blend and balance are a critical part of ensemble playing that is supposed to be judged in DCI competitions. But at least some corps do not leave this in the hands of their performers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c.l. Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 You're right about the Bluecoats this year, and there are many other corps who are doing similar things to Crown as well. Just because they're doing stuff I don't like doesn't mean I'll ever stop being a fan. All the corps, including Crown, have great moments in their shows...which makes the synthesized stuff even more distracting. You're also correct in that corps have done goofy stuff going all the way back to the 70's and 80's. However, Crown has taken it to a whole new level and just happens to be leading the way right now. Just sporting a mullet makes one have goofy stuff in their shows by extension, especially when said mullet flows back and forth with each head bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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