Rules Congress

[bill]

Okay, if we are going to have a discussion, we first need to get past this. I think that in most cases, when someone says their line-in-the-sand change will "kill" drum corps, they are merely stating that "drum corps", as they define it, will be gone as a result - not that the changed activity will repel every last fan and go extinct. Other marching arts have added electronics without repelling every last spectator.

Since you mention DCI, we should look at them. Yes, attendance is up a bit in 2014. What does that have to do with A&E? DCI made those changes 5 to 10 years ago, and attendance trends were not optimistic at those times. As for new corps, we did just see a growth spurt in 2014 after many years without. Again, I do not see how electronics has anything to do with that. In fact, the growth is focused in remote areas far away from the DCI home base, generated by corps with remarkably limited tour schedules.

I agree. But how? It seems that the new business model for DCA is to stay five car lengths behind DCI. Is that really their best strategy?

Back in the 1990s, DCA was very smart about developing class A. Regional expansion was another brilliant concept. DCA actually WAS growing when those ideas were their focus. Looking at the new DCI corps, there is evidence of further growth potential for whichever circuit reaches out to remote regions, and to programs with schedule constraints that conflict with traditional dates for world championships. DCI is making progress there. DCA, not any more.

You make it sound as if changes like A&E are necessary to draw people to the activity. But how has that worked out so far?

But DCA has not been sticking to tradition. They have been making all the same changes DCI has made, and apparently they are not impacting attendance positively.

Moving the championships to an earlier date and off of Labor Day weekend may be a consideration option to look at, it has been mentioned by a member corps or two in the past if I recall correctly.

[cixelsyd]

Bush's own recruiting director spoke elsewhere about having to explain to kids why DCA didnt have electronics and getting looked at like he had 4 heads.

Okay, so a corps that used hundreds of spoken words in their show had to explain to their members why electronics were okay pre-show, but not mid-show.

None of the kids I have ever spoken to as prospective marchers have ever asked why drum corps did not have A and/or E. When amplified pit and synth became staples, though, I would expect kids with marching band pit experience would have asked.

So do kids ask you why drum corps does not have woodwinds? Do they look at you like you have 4 heads when you explain?

[JimF-LowBari]

Why doesn't Alumni show sell out? Well how about people come for the competitive part of the weekend and anything else is a side show. Don't remember the Minis at MD being sold out and with a lesser "get together and talk" atmosphere than the noisy Convention Center at NY. And MD looked like a smaller crowd but hard to tell with different venues. Would say that the better Minis keep up with the times.

And with 10 Alumni you can have 6-8 different eras and playing styles (IOW 8-10 flavors of "tradition") and even Alumni fans might not like them all (know I don't). And that older DCA demographic might be finding it's harder to make Prelims-Alumni-Finals without body pain interfering so guess what gets cut out. Sorry Jeff but using this as an example of why DCA must change is not strong evidence. IMO. Yes DCA must keep up but pointing at the Alumni attendance seems off to me.

To put it in a sound bite: How does attendance at an exhibition show "prove" what people want in the competitive world?

Edited December 29, 2014 by JimF-LowBari

[Fred Windish]

For me, the 'canary in the coal mine' was the loss of Empire Statesmen. Surely, I don't know all the details behind the scenes for that decision, nor should I, but here you have one of DCA's most popular, talented, and engaging corps deciding "Look, we just can't make participating in this circuit work anymore."

A bonafide, can't miss, showstopper determines it can't continue. Can't continue, even with the circuit's main event being held in its home city! So, really, how much a factor can amplification be in growing the circuit? Not much.

DCA has a 'math' problem, more than anything else. Right now, appearance money is not sustaining. Appearance money comes primarily from ticket sales. Am I not correct?

I should also add, the 'raise ticket prices' card has already been used. At some point, that's not the answer.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Fred Windish

[Fran Haring]

Amps or no amps... synths or no synths... circus animals or no circus animals... jet packs or no jet packs... IMO, it all comes down to the programs the corps put on the field.

If the programs engage the audience and make them want to come back and pay to see the product again.... then it's a win.

If not... if the paying audience... without whom drum corps cannot survive... is left with a "what the heck is going on out there" feeling... then the activity... DCA, DCI, whatever... will be a big step closer to closing up shop.

[JimF-LowBari]

Can't use quote function in W8 but "raise ticket prices" raised a chill up my spine as IMO it helped kill the Red Carpet Association. Costs went up for corps and when the local shows they ran for lot of/most of their budget raised prices to meet expenses the attendance went down. Another reason feel it's impossible to start new corps or keep one alive it an "oh crap" happens as the budget money has to come from some many non-corps areas.

[LegalEagle50]

Legal Eagle - this isn't a courtroom so please - spare me your attempt to discredit the witness by making up a story in your head about me wanting DCA to fail (for what possible gain is beyond me). Read my posts with an open mind if possible - I categorically DO NOT want DCA to fail - I want it to survive and be distinct from DCI.

Understand now?

I didn't make up a story about you. I took everything I wrote based upon your own writings. You haven't written anything open minded, so why would one suddenly feel you were such a thing?

And my name is in my signature, unlike your choice to be anonymous. Please address me accordingly, thank you.

[LegalEagle50]

For me, the 'canary in the coal mine' was the loss of Empire Statesmen. Surely, I don't know all the details behind the scenes for that decision, nor should I, but here you have one of DCA's most popular, talented, and engaging corps deciding "Look, we just can't make participating in this circuit work anymore."

A bonafide, can't miss, showstopper determines it can't continue. Can't continue, even with the circuit's main event being held in its home city! So, really, how much a factor can amplification be in growing the circuit? Not much.

DCA has a 'math' problem, more than anything else. Right now, appearance money is not sustaining. Appearance money comes primarily from ticket sales. Am I not correct?

I should also add, the 'raise ticket prices' card has already been used. At some point, that's not the answer.

I have always been under the impression lack of nearby shows was what made TPTB close up shop at Empire. Could be wrong.

[JimF-LowBari]

In Grandpas defense Liz, I don't understand how "not being open minded" or not agreeing with the new changes = "wanting DCA to fail".

Sounds like you two are talking about two differnet things... which sound like talking to my in laws....ugh...

Edited December 29, 2014 by JimF-LowBari

[cixelsyd]

How do you get from this -

I do not want to see DCA make a fatal mistake

- to "Grandpa wants to see DCA fail"?