Rules Congress

[Jeff Ream]

Yeah you know what - you're all right and I'm completely wrong. Nothing bad will happen to DCA as a result of all this. Don't worry about a thing - everything will be wonderful in drum corps land. Nobody could possibly take a wrong turn. Nobody makes bad decisions ever....

Sorry - I know that was overly sarcastic - but you already got what you wanted, and still you're here defending it. Maybe you're not so confident as you wish to appear.

Either way - I'll sit back and see what happens. Believe me when I say, I hope I'm wrong.

I'll be honest...I don't care if it's there or not. I'm more worried about if it's used well or not.

Here's the thing...everyone cried DCi would die when it became legal in 2009. I did too.

Guess what...DCi has actually been seeing more corps start up than fold. attendance is growing. not huge, but increases the last few years from the depths of 2009. So is it really hurting drum corps as much as so many protest?

No. And I'll be one of the first to say I was wrong in 09. Sure i'll complain about how they're used sometimes. I complained about how traditional ( aka since 2003 with any key) instruments were used. this drum corps, as fans we're never 100% satisfied.

DCI 2014, top to bottom, was the most I enjoyed the entire World Class since probably 2002. The purchase and upkeep of one synth for a DCA A Class corps is going to cost less than the purchase of a new contra. Many DCA corps have tied to band programs where they can get the equipment from to keep costs down, as they did last year with amps in the pit. People claim there's no creativity in drum corps, but some of the best creativity is in how DCA admin folks find the equipment needed to put a corps out there.

Will DCA possibly suffer a bit of backlash? probably.....yet no one #####ed about Cabs electronically driven pre-show last year. and IMO, it would have made the entire show a little better to have more of that in the actual show.

know this isn't necessarily what everyone wants. But grandpa, drum corps changed during your years. And when old times complained, you probably called them stuck in the past dinosaurs too. my grandfather had his time, my dad had his time, I had my time....and eventually my daughter will have her time. and til she gets there, more will possibly change...because drum corps has changed since day 1.

you can't deny it.

[JimF-LowBari]

Sorry - I know that was overly sarcastic - but you already got what you wanted, and still you're here defending it. Maybe you're not so confident as you wish to appear.

Either way - I'll sit back and see what happens. Believe me when I say, I hope I'm wrong.

Only thing I want is survival of the activity. And if it gets to the point I'm no longer entertained then I'll quit following (again). No fuss, no muss and no me..... Admit it's not much of a threat since we'll probably be following by FN from now on for other reasons.

And I believe you hope you're wrong based on posts we had in the past.... too bad we naver had a face to face.

Edited December 24, 2014 by JimF-LowBari

[BigW]

Because of the competitive nature of the activity, it does evolve. Everyone looking for some way to get an edge, express themselves artistically just a little bit differently then the next team and win.

Also... the best uses of electronics provide spice to the dinner, a frame to the painting. When they try to become the substance of the meal or the entire painting, that's when it blows up on people. Not gonna mention who it's usually blown up on in DCI but that can be figured out. I'd also believe judges would credit a guy who drops a note on his solo more than using Al Chez's sample, too. Al may disagree on that but he's always been a scrappy fighter by nature. I really don't see any DCA corps abusing this stuff. I'd wager you may well see some really well thought out and tasteful uses of it that will impress and amaze this season. Don't undersell the creative staffs in DCA. It's an insult to all of them. Too much talent, creativity, and experience out there.

On a lighter note, Fran and all you old Sunriser guys-- I found some Ballantine IPA at the local Wegman's, got it for my sister to evaluate. Hopefully she'll share.

[LegalEagle50]

Let's see. I still hear people complaining about the color guard dancing and they have been doing it slowly but surely for close to 40 years now. Guard is more popular now than ever. What is one person's opinion on a bad decision can and often is another's thought of "that's a great idea".

You have a Merry Christmas Grandpa

[Grandpa]

Jeff - I realize change is constant in all things, but it's up to DCA as an entity to manage which changes it incorporates based on best judgement of what is "good" vs "bad" change. I think they screwed this one up, that this is a bad change, and that DCA is far more vulnerable to backlash than DCI. As for kids - we have around 30 and not one has asked if we had synths as a criteria for joining. Not one kid has decided no to join because we don't have them. I don't believe that requirement is coming from the kids - it's coming from the corps deciding "what is hip" and promoting their decisions. I want to join your corps, I had better be onside with that vision. The problem also lies in the adjudication, where (at least in DCI) the sheets reward pushing the boundaries of the activity. It is therefore mandated, self-accelerating change, not the much touted evolution. It's as if acoustic guitars were officially deemed unusable with the advent of electric guitars. IMHO there should be a place for both. DCA has decided it's all electronic. I find that profoundly sad.

Jim - Sorry but my opinion is not based on any conversation you and I have ever had. I state my case here because I do not want to see DCA make a fatal mistake, and I don't want to see all-acoustic drum corps disappear. I have a faint hope that some corps directors are reading and considering what is said here. By far the overwhelming sentiment seems to be in favour, but here I would invoke the statement that DCP is not a true cross section of the drum corps community. You may remember this claim being vigorously stated when a poll here showed overwhelming opposition to electronics. Sadly I believe that a lot of these folks put ego and bowing to their design staff above what is good for the activity. I would welcome a face to face with you.

Liz - I hate to say this but I really don't watch guards much on the field anymore. When they drop the equipment and dance, they pretty much become invisible in a football stadium. Even sabres are hard to see from more than 20 or so rows back. It works in a WGI venue, less so in a drum corps venue. But as you say - it's subjective. Maybe it's just time for me to check my prescription!

Edited December 24, 2014 by Grandpa

[JimF-LowBari]

Understood cuz I don't think we ever talked about direction DCA/DCI is going. I'm just saying that I trust you when you say you hope you're wrong. IOW you're putting drum corps above being proven right.

I'd rather see all acoustic too and also not a fan of the pit but that's what we have. (Yeah Liz I'm old ). Too many years of hearing the old Sprint Car mantra of "Run what ya brung". And I don't see pit people running.

For me I'm more concerned about the added costs for corps. But that comes from being involved with a rebuilding corps with a lot of red ink. Nothing like being 16 years old and riding with BoD members to get a rude awakening about the real world. OK that's another thing about the pit that gives me a sick feeling, cost of instruments and garden/tractors/trucks/etc to haul it. (And wish those #### people between me and the corps on the field would sit down. If we had shows at Danville anymore I'd be looking between pit players legs to see the field from the bottom row.)

Edited December 24, 2014 by JimF-LowBari

[hairbear]

A slightly different perspective: On the 21st of May, 1971, I boarded a plane for Texas. I was my Jr. Corps first "age out" at 19 years old. I still had three years of eligibility, but "Uncle Sam" had other plans for me. The drum corps I knew, was what we all knew it to be, at that time. Half a world away in 1972/73, drum corps was the last thing on my mind. There's no time for drum corps, in a war zone. I was 20 years old, hoping to see my 21st birthday. On the morning of December 5th, 1973, I took a seat on that beautiful silver and white C-141, with a smile on my face. I made it! Discharged on April 4th, 1974, I went home. I went to something called "DCI" finals, later that year. All the corps I knew, where there. "Who's this? Blue Devils. never heard of them. Bring on the Troopers!" While everyone else was around for the "Combine", the formation of DCI and the changes in rules, drill design, etc, I was not. Sitting in the stands that night, I had a choice. I could reject what I saw, or I could accept it. I accepted it.

[Jeff Ream]

Jeff - I realize change is constant in all things, but it's up to DCA as an entity to manage which changes it incorporates based on best judgement of what is "good" vs "bad" change. I think they screwed this one up, that this is a bad change, and that DCA is far more vulnerable to backlash than DCI. As for kids - we have around 30 and not one has asked if we had synths as a criteria for joining. Not one kid has decided no to join because we don't have them. I don't believe that requirement is coming from the kids - it's coming from the corps deciding "what is hip" and promoting their decisions. I want to join your corps, I had better be onside with that vision. The problem also lies in the adjudication, where (at least in DCI) the sheets reward pushing the boundaries of the activity. It is therefore mandated, self-accelerating change, not the much touted evolution. It's as if acoustic guitars were officially deemed unusable with the advent of electric guitars. IMHO there should be a place for both. DCA has decided it's all electronic. I find that profoundly sad.

Jim - Sorry but my opinion is not based on any conversation you and I have ever had. I state my case here because I do not want to see DCA make a fatal mistake, and I don't want to see all-acoustic drum corps disappear. I have a faint hope that some corps directors are reading and considering what is said here. By far the overwhelming sentiment seems to be in favour, but here I would invoke the statement that DCP is not a true cross section of the drum corps community. You may remember this claim being vigorously stated when a poll here showed overwhelming opposition to electronics. Sadly I believe that a lot of these folks put ego and bowing to their design staff above what is good for the activity. I would welcome a face to face with you.

Liz - I hate to say this but I really don't watch guards much on the field anymore. When they drop the equipment and dance, they pretty much become invisible in a football stadium. Even sabres are hard to see from more than 20 or so rows back. It works in a WGI venue, less so in a drum corps venue. But as you say - it's subjective. Maybe it's just time for me to check my prescription!

ok...well..DCA voted for this change, so they think it's good.

Look...back in 03 when DCI voted in amps, I was among the loudest of the loud decrying it. I had seen at that point so many horrid uses in the band world, I dreaded it. Then something happened.....people started getting truly creative and doing good stuff. Granted, most of that started in indoor, but it spread. I came around, and as I taught, I got more involved with it and started to understand the possibilities. Will there be poor usage? hell yes, just as we've seen with brass and percussion still to this day! But it is something have come to expect as it's prevalent in every other segment of the activity.

I fully expect DCA corps to be far more intelligent as to how they handle the financial aspect of things than DCI has and will, but no electronics has ever driven a corps into the ground financially. Poor management and dealing with fuel, busses, and food are by far the biggest culprits there.

I was told the other night the number of paid attendance in Rochester last August. we have to reverse that trend fast. Part of it is location ( yes, I know Rachacha gives the best deal to house. it's also nowhere near the hub of corps and fans). We have to start thinking ahead, because standing still has gotten us nowhere. For all of the doom and gloom screamed at DCI since all electronics came in in 2009......their numbers have gone up.slowly but surely, the numbers are growing.DCA's aren't. So what is sticking to "tradition"...something that's changed constantly since drum corps began....doing for us?

[Grandpa]

Well now you are attacking some of the real issues.

Location - Rochester and Annapolis. Rochester is great for me, but not for most. Annapolis was way to far away to consider - not sure how the attendance was there. I kinda liked marching DCA at venues like Franklin field but it doesn't exist anymore. I'd love to see DCA get this straightened out and would love to hear recommendations for a better location.

Shows - where are they? Is it just me or does the schedule seem kinda thin compared to 20-30 years ago? White Sabers came up to Canada to do an exhibition last year to have a place to perform (and they were amazing!) The more travelling you have to do, the more expense, and we all know where that spiral leads. How many corps has DCA lost in the last few years?

Who wants to drive 5-6 hours to see a show with only 5 corps in it?

Throwing a few keyboards at these problems is like trying to put out a fire with a stapler. There is no connection between problem and supposed solution.

My suggestion? Encourage a junior class in DCA. Instead of buying synths get corps like Cabs and Bucs to throw some excess equipment and a few instruction hour a week into creating a Junior Caballeros (Bucs, etc) corps and give them the opportunity to perform, when ready, in DCA sanctioned shows. I would put our kids into that in a heartbeat. We need a whole new generation to know about this activity and you are not going to accomplish that with a few extra instruments in the pit. That's possibly the stupidest attempt at a solution imaginable. No relevance to the problem you cite, plus many more.

DCA needs to reinvent itself, not with a lame attempt to be DCI, but with an expansion of the core program and vision for the future. If they don't - dead man walking...

[GUARDLING]

Well now you are attacking some of the real issues.

Location - Rochester and Annapolis. Rochester is great for me, but not for most. Annapolis was way to far away to consider - not sure how the attendance was there. I kinda liked marching DCA at venues like Franklin field but it doesn't exist anymore. I'd love to see DCA get this straightened out and would love to hear recommendations for a better location.

Shows - where are they? Is it just me or does the schedule seem kinda thin compared to 20-30 years ago? White Sabers came up to Canada to do an exhibition last year to have a place to perform (and they were amazing!) The more travelling you have to do, the more expense, and we all know where that spiral leads. How many corps has DCA lost in the last few years?

Who wants to drive 5-6 hours to see a show with only 5 corps in it?

Throwing a few keyboards at these problems is like trying to put out a fire with a stapler. There is no connection between problem and supposed solution.

My suggestion? Encourage a junior class in DCA. Instead of buying synths get corps like Cabs and Bucs to throw some excess equipment and a few instruction hour a week into creating a Junior Caballeros (Bucs, etc) corps and give them the opportunity to perform, when ready, in DCA sanctioned shows. I would put our kids into that in a heartbeat. We need a whole new generation to know about this activity and you are not going to accomplish that with a few extra instruments in the pit. That's possibly the stupidest attempt at a solution imaginable. No relevance to the problem you cite, plus many more.

DCA needs to reinvent itself, not with a lame attempt to be DCI, but with an expansion of the core program and vision for the future. If they don't - dead man walking...

HMMMMMMM, the corps of DCA have it hard enough to keep themselves going but you actually think they want to put even more into another ( I guess youre saying ) feeder corps. BITD there were plenty of corps BUT do we want quantity and thin out the quality? I don't know about that. The cost DCI wise for the bells and whistles is minimal and in many cases borrowed.

Unless Im reading you wrong the solution is not to go back to recapture something that maybe could never be duplicated for many reasons BUT one of those reasons could also be is that we bitd saw it through very different eyes and maybe a little rose colored.

Edited December 27, 2014 by GUARDLING