CCorps Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 The gym teachers have every right to be frazzled by 200 people invading their classroom for several days taking over all facilities without guarantee that they will be left in the exact condition in which they were received. As a teacher, I never let extracurricular or weekend activities use my classroom. As it's an opt-in choice, it was a choice I was fine with making. The entitlement of some of these posts are as bad as that of athletic departments. But we're playing on THEIR turf with THEIR space so the entitlement here is unwarranted. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) The gym teachers have every right to be frazzled by 200 people invading their classroom for several days taking over all facilities without guarantee that they will be left in the exact condition in which they were received. As a teacher, I never let extracurricular or weekend activities use my classroom. As it's an opt-in choice, it was a choice I was fine with making. The entitlement of some of these posts are as bad as that of athletic departments. But we're playing on THEIR turf with THEIR space so the entitlement here is unwarranted. What are the procedures in your district with stuff that "disappears" or is damaged after outside groups leave? Sis-in-law teachs at a rural district that doesn't have deep pockets. If any unexpected expenses (like missing items) occur it can really hit the budget for the following year. Edited February 12, 2015 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Caveat C Corps; Teachers are EMPLOYEES not kingdom keepers. It's not your space, it's the taxpayers space. The teacher's turf is usually publicly owned and given in stewardship for the teacher's use part time. What the public decides to do with the public's property is not for the entitlement of the teacher nor is it for the entitlement of the gym teacher who likes to pretend it is his/her kingdom nor for the corps. If the School Board who employs the principal or who employs the teacher says others may use the facility, you lock your personal items away for that time and pass the responsibilities back to the EMPLOYER. You are portraying a sense of entitlement of its own right, as bad as the Catholic school kid protesting that the "publics" are coming for CCD class, etc., etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) What are the procedures in your district with stuff that "disappears" or is damaged after outside groups leave? Sis-in-law teachs at a rural district that doesn't have deep pockets. If any unexpected expenses (like missing items) occur it can really hit the budget for the following year. Good concerns but an immaturity in the blame game and not owning up to the responsibility of the teacher/principal, etc. to lock up the valuables the same way one does when one hosts a house party or office open house. Too many situations where the corps have been blamed when it was ultimately found to be the in-house folks walking away with the goods. Check the vandalism at any school or house of worship. Most usually it ultimately turns out to be a graduate, angry student, or fired employee and not visitors. Police statistics back me up on this assessment; talk with your own law enforcement folks. You may be quite surprised. Edited February 12, 2015 by xandandl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) The gym teachers have every right to be frazzled by 200 people invading their classroom for several days taking over all facilities without guarantee that they will be left in the exact condition in which they were received. As a teacher, I never let extracurricular or weekend activities use my classroom. As it's an opt-in choice, it was a choice I was fine with making. The entitlement of some of these posts are as bad as that of athletic departments. But we're playing on THEIR turf with THEIR space so the entitlement here is unwarranted. how about whaen they do it to their own school programs. It goes far beyond drum corps . It's been an attitude forever with many ( not all ) athletic directors. Unlike a classroom which may be 1 teachers, a gym is a shared space for the school I believe ( or should be ) IMO it's like saying the HS auditorium should only be used by the theater dept and if you aren't in that class then any downtime by anyone else is forbidden. Edited February 12, 2015 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Good concerns but an immaturity in the blame game and not owning up to the responsibility of the teacher/principal, etc. to lock up the valuables the same way one does when one hosts a house party or office open house. Too many situations where the corps have been blamed when it was ultimately found to be the in-house folks walking away with the goods. Check the vandalism at any school or house of worship. Most usually it ultimately turns out to be a graduate, angry student, or fired employee and not visitors. Police statistics back me up on this assessment; talk with your own law enforcement folks. You may be quite surprised. Another reason why they should be a checking of the facilities just before the corps arrive and just after they leave. Just like the before and after check list for rental cars or apartments. Saves headaches and/or legal actions ;ater on. And where exactly did I blame corps for vandalism? All I asked CCorps was for his schools policy and no idea where your post is coming from. As for locking up the valuables, IIRC there is not an area in the classroom to lock up the material that will be handed out beginning of the school year. The locking up to protect those items comes when the class room door is locked. And if they disappear before given out it will impact studies, You call it teacher entitlement, I call it protecting the students education. Interesting that you called it the taxpayers space as the corps people using that space are probably not taxpayers for that district. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleran Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I think CCorps' post citing the capitalized "THEIR" was directed at me, since I made the initial comment, but xandandl already responded appropriately. The specific situation I was talking about relates to use of the gyms by local athletic groups, so in response to JimF-Lowbari's post above, these ARE tax payers, and work directly with the Township's Dept. of Parks and Rec, and the Board of Education - so these groups absolutely have the entitlement to share in the use of the facilities after-hours, so long as used respectfully, and pursuant to whatever policies the township has enacted. As for drum corps, however, I agree with the distinction JimF-Lowbari makes - they are, in fact, NOT local kids or parents who contributed to the taxes (or who will be voting in the next school board election), so they naturally cannot expect the same preferential treatment as local groups. However, they ARE still non-profit educational organizations, so one hopes they would be given some preferential treatment (as opposed to for-profit businesses which also attempt to secure school or other public facilities). However, and this goes back to CCorp's comment above, most of the drum corps use we've been discussing (i.e. while on the road attending competitions) occurs during the summer, so the teachers (gym, or otherwise) can hardly be claiming that the '"invasion" interferes with the teacher's activities, since the teachers are likely not working at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Jim, I find your responses are overly personal. I did not say you blamed the corps. I presumed you were reading through the thread and all its posts, such as my response to CCorps (post 81, my response post 83.) You are correct that corps include taxpayers from other places, even local corps. However, the way booking schools works, there is often a local taxpayer sponsor/endorser of the petition to rent or use whether that person is the TEP or an individual, a local school board or its principal or its delegate to whom the petition is presented, and a local school board or superintendent who renders the official decision and signs the contract in locis for the local taxpayers who fund that employee's salary. Not even Mother Superior owns the schools unless it is at the Order's motherhouse (church lingo used by private school and this translate to local hq.) Local taxpayers (as a group) own the district and govt.; the supts., principals, teachers, cops and staff are merely employees chosen to fulfill a role in their stead. Corps definitely should not be tampering with things which aren't their own. However, if the school district is cavalier in its security or fails to provide the teacher and staff with sufficient resources, the district is not following professional standards, no matter who tinkers with what is not their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBones Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I only glanced through this. So if this was already memtioned, I aplologize. As a school board member and a facilities person for an Open Class corps, I see both sides of the issue. All the responses about facilities not allowing for rehearsals due to insurance risks, having personal stay while a corps is using the facility, districts having activities at their school or center all year round are true. Add to that if a fire inspector refuese to let you sleep over because its not safe to have kids seeping on a gym floor. Also, schools have memories like elephants, especially when there is a bad experience. Not to vilify any particular drum corps (and sadly its not just one or two and not just international corps who do not know the ways of the US) whos names range from inactive to still active, but a more disturbing situation is when you talk to the facilities administrator and they tell you that "they let XX drum corps stay and they trashed the school" or "XX corps still owes them money for staying and have refused to pay so I guess you are out of luck" . These are some of the actual quotes I recieved when trying to find rehearsal space. If a corps stayed or rehearsed on any of our schools (and one does), if they did not leave it in better condition than when they came in, NO CORPS would ever be allowed to rehearse there again. If a corps does leave a facility in worse shape than when they came in, maybe they should be banned from competing until past bills are paid and they learn how to respect other's property. The DCI AND DCA landscape would look very different if it was enforced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Back when DCI had contests in Canada, border crossings were always "fun." Many old timers can share some great stories about the Montreal championships, Hamilton contests, and Toronto. College band I was in did a series of Canadian performances. Percussion section filled 2 snares w/ as many bottles of Canadian whisky as they could fit - were busted by customs dude who was curious why some drums were a lot heavier than others/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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