brichtimp Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 You might think that something was obvious in rehearsal, but as someone who has been a part of plenty of stadium rehearsals in the very stadium we would perform in that night, the bodies in the seats change the game entirely, and in ways you may or may not be able to predict. While I agree with the impact of an audience and venue on the sound produced, one can only evaluate based on the conditions as they are in a specific venue. That said, there can be recurring trends. If we heard over-balanced bass synth in three widely divergent stadiums (PPL Park, J Birney Crum and Lucas Oil), then we concluded that it was an issue that persisted during the season. All of this feeds into my personal bias for wanting to hear great brass sonority without electronics hyping the acoustical sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 You are correct. Even Mozart knew where the expensive seats were. Still, the house engineer and (especially) the concert promoter have a vested interest in maximizing (as in, making the best of) the sonic experience for those unwashed patrons in the cheap seats. Without those folks, there would be no shows for the musicians to play. when you did off the line drill to the exit line, then everyone got some. then visual changed. And ever since then, it became about the box. And as long as you have movement in an area as large as a football field, if you sit outside of a certain area, you're going to have people who don't get to hear everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Totally agree. Even usage I didn't personally like due to some design choices I thought was handled/performed good. It's taken some time (as most knew it would), but I think the designers & staffers finally have this dialed in! well many of us knew it would, but of course in PR touting the passage, it was spoken as if it would be gold from second one. In reality it took 10 years. And honestly, reviews are still mixed stadium by stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 We viewed multiple live shows.....Chester, Allentown, all 3 nights of Indy; and We have the Blu-ray finals for comparison. Several FF chords for Cadets featured too much synth bass for proper balance, including opening tutti, and end of Simple Gifts for two examples. We viewed live from about half way up typically......same issue at rehearsals we viewed (my son was in snare line). For Coats, the huge pitch bend and following climax were, IMHO, lessened by the sampled brass.....seemed to degrade intonation, blend and balance. Cadets at Allentown I felt were gooey at times. Online though, it didn't stick out as much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I will say this...going back to day 1 amps became legal, the one corps I don't think I've ever read a balance concern about is BD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I've been outside the 30's frequently and A&E carries there -- not as well -- but it doesn't just evaporate outside the 40's. Marching band/drum corps is always best inside the 40's -- it's been that way WELL before A&E ever appeared in drum corps. The idea that shows are now completely unintelligible outside the 40's is ridiculous hyperbole. I agree. But no one has said that (except you, right there). I think we all understand that the sound does not completely disappear one seat beyond the 40 yard line. Putting your hyperbole aside, there is a distinct difference in how A&E is distributed to the seating area compared to brass and percussion. Are you denying that? As I said earlier --- I suspect such a perception has far more to do with the content (and the viewer's pre-disposition to it) then volume levels. To be precise, it is not the volume levels. Field coverage is the issue. If the A&E are clear and balanced at the box, they will be clear for the entire center seating section as well. But for the overwhelming majority of corps whose speaker coverage stops at the 35s, angled inward, clarity degrades markedly as you move outward. For pit percussion which projects acoustically, that is not necessarily a problem. For speech and singing, it is. And as shows use more verbal material (like Colts last year), their design becomes an inside joke (i.e. inside the 35 yard lines). Center audience reacts to the words, while people outside the 35s shrug and ask each other what was said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) I agree. But no one has said that (except you, right there). I think we all understand that the sound does not completely disappear one seat beyond the 40 yard line. oops.... When shows started on one goal line and ended at the other, corps played to all the seats between the goal lines at some point. When that was done away with, corps developed spread formations which provided nearly the same attention to the seating area. That same attention is generally absent from A&E implementation. Speakers, like the pit performers they amplify, rarely move, and their sounds can only be properly heard between the 40s. Unless this activity can fund itself on selling just the seats between the 40s, something needs to be adjusted. Better get your story straight. To be precise, it is not the volume levels. Field coverage is the issue. If the A&E are clear and balanced at the box, they will be clear for the entire center seating section as well. But for the overwhelming majority of corps whose speaker coverage stops at the 35s, angled inward, clarity degrades markedly as you move outward. How many corps had speakers outside the 35? You apparently have no idea. For pit percussion which projects acoustically, that is not necessarily a problem. For speech and singing, it is. And as shows use more verbal material (like Colts last year), their design becomes an inside joke (i.e. inside the 35 yard lines). Center audience reacts to the words, while people outside the 35s shrug and ask each other what was said. Lol and there you go again. The wall of unintelligibility which you ealier denied talking about. The shows have always been better between the 40's . That's why show promoters charge premium prices for those seats. A&E hasn't changed this at all. Have some corps done A&E better than others? ABSOLUTELY. I've been in the 'magic zone' and STILL couldn't understand some narration because the implementation was just poor. A lot of times this can be fixed just with better technique and instruction. I don't disagree that many corps (even most corps) have lots of room for improvement in this area. OTOH it's also clear that some corps have (mostly) figured it out. But isn't it that way with EVERYTHING in drum corps? I will throw you this bone: IF a corps is going to incorporate narration that is critical to understanding the show, they *should* care whether the entire audience can understand it. Edited May 12, 2015 by corpsband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I think you mean "ugly bags of mostly water" Get it straight, it's "meatbags" - Bender Bending Rodríguez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cf144 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Get it straight, it's "meatbags" - Bender Bending Rodríguez LOL - Bender is my hero. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I think you mean "ugly bags of mostly water" ST:TNG seems more stiff now than I remember it feeling when it originally aired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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