San Antonio - Guard Perspective

[Cappybara]

Caption... Perhaps the lack of defined catch positions are leading to lower guard scores. From this photo, I can't tell if the Sabre should be flat or at the down angle. Also, I believe the hands are supposed to be seperated much more on the catch. Unless the cadets have changed their technique approach recently.

Bro. It's a still image. Calm down.

[George Dixon]

Some wise man once said :..." a picture is worth a thousand words".

Boy, was he ever right. We just might get a thousands words here on DCP on a single Cadets Guard picture.

what's classic about this is I posted some pics on twitter from Allentown when I was on dcp "vacation" - I didn't post one of my Crown pictures because in the mass rifle catch there were several drops - so I chose not to post it

I believe the Cadet image captures what it was meant to - intensity of the performance. I doubt it's publishing was run past the guard experts - it was more meant to show how into the performance the members are - and it does so wonderfully

JMO of course

[N.E. Brigand]

Some wise man once said "a picture is worth a thousand words". Boy, was he ever right. We just might get a thousands words here on DCP on a single Cadets guard picture.

Not just DCP, and not just when pictures are involved. On a Lord of the Rings forum I frequent, one quip runs, "We can write a thousand-word note on every word that Tolkien wrote".

[BRASSO]

what's classic about this is I posted some pics on twitter from Allentown when I was on dcp "vacation" - I didn't post one of my Crown pictures because in the mass rifle catch there were several drops - so I chose not to post it

One of the surprises ( to some ) is the fine performances of the Cadets Brass section... finishing 1st, 2nd in brass in several shows now. Perhaps as a public service to others, you and other Cadets may want to take a few pics of the individual brass players with their superb embouchure depicted. And then perhaps show in pics the snare line with uniformity of drumstick positioning with their fine Percussion line. This way, fans, and other Corps may find some good techniques here that might be of brass playing and drum playing benefits to them as instructional value as they go about their quest to try and catch up to the Cadets this season. As I said, take the pics and show it as a public service with perhaps some tangible instructional value for others. Just a thought anyway, you know what I'm sayin' ?

Edited July 21, 2015 by BRASSO

[drumcorpsfever]

Hi all,

thought I'd start a topic to discuss some of the guards from last night. Overall, I'm more than impressed by what these kids are doing these days and the level of achievement. I mean I know the show was indoors - but I'm still impressed by how little drops there are now - the consistency is incredible !

From the guards that stood out for me (good or bad)

SOA

Much better program this year. From the costume to the work they have - I feel that the design is a step up. Not sure I would start the show with a white flag (even though it is meant to represent surrender - I think) - it just doesn't fit with the guard who seems to be portraying fire. Another hard theme to pull off for the corps - but much better job from the guard program this year.

Mandarins

Always seem to have great performers - but who just can't spin together. I don't know if it's a lack of basics, or a great tech, but year after year, I find that they just stay super dirty throughout the year - but if I look at individual performers - they really know how to perform. It's a tough conundrum !

Madison Scouts

Whoever is in charge of coloration for this show -is a genius. From the guard uniform (down to the design on the shoes) to the flags to how color works in general to give Madison that "1950's saturated movie musical" feel - is awesome. Definitely a stronger guard for Madison this year (although I was one of the few who really liked them last year). The difficulty with this show is that it can easily be over performed to the point of being cheesy. Gene Kelly was never cheesy - and I'm not sure that the guard understands that - some of those facial expressions bring it over the edge. The mannequins with the pink dresses wouldn't have been my choice - but that aside, a very fun show to watch.

Boston Crusaders

I love watching this guard. They are mature performers who have great technique and know how to sell a theme. Great costuming and flag choices throughout really help sell it. Do not like that guard member signing (same thing with Troopers). It just takes away from the show.

Blue Stars

Love this guard design. The old time carnival costuming is incredibly rich and detailed, and they have one of the hardest equipment books out there - which is why they always end up being a bit dirtier - but I'll take their tricks anytime. Standout moment was that siamese twin flag spinning - such a great idea. Never a dull moment in this show and wonderful performers !

The Academy

I was pleasantly surprised by them. Guard has traditionally been one of their achilles heels. I feel that they started to really address it last year with Vanity Fair and have continued growing this year. Just a fun guard to watch. They understand their role and know how to sell a Mary Poppins theme without being obnoxious about it.

Phantom Regiment

I have mixed feeling about them. I think they are a great guard with great technique and the book is very musical. I feel that that the theme is keeping me from enjoying them more as it seems 'lite". A whole song about shopping - I don't know. The black hats look dorky from close up but are effective from far away. Great moment with dancers, flags and rifles in An American in Paris - not sure I would do a kick line though (again - a bit lite on thematic programming). They also need to look at equipment transitions (a pet peeve of mine). Right now they go to the front, pick up their equipment and get back in the drill before they start spinning - should be more organic.

The Cavaliers

I loved last years show - I think this year is a step back. Not sure the theme is coming across as it's basically seen by having them run or do a strongman muscle pose (which can look a little funny on the skinnier guys). The guys (especially weapons) obviously know how to spin and have great technique - but as with Phantom, I think they are being held back by the theme they need to interpret.

Troopers

Not a great show from them last night. Not sure I read the horse imagery from the guard other than their costumes. Would love to see them spin in and around the fences. Not a fan of the girl signing either. Overall, they need to really clean up this show guard wise as visually it isn't gelling yet. Not sure the black horse costuming works either - they tend to get lost among the rest of the guard - it's a strange look visually.

Vanguard

What a great concept. Love the costume design. The work is extremely musical and serves to highlight the music so much. Love the one handed sabre catch and the chain flag / real flag work in the ballad. Not sure about the dancer dancing with a piece of material though. The body movement used in the skeleton section is super cool and the copper flags look great. They need to work on consistency and timing. Everything seems amplified in this show and the smallest timing error really seems to stand out (like the flags doing duo work in the opener as they cross the field.

Crown

Without a doubt the best guard on the field this year. They were on fire last night. The costuming, writing, performance and demand are incredible. 30 rifles tossing a 5 -yes please !!!! I had to really strain to find anything wrong last night (a dance line was out of sync for 3 or 4 counts - that was about it). The ending with the gold flags is a let down - but everyone keeps saying it will change. No one should be beating Crown guard at this point - IMO !

Cadets

I won't lie. I've been critical of this guard. Overall the corps has such a great program - the guard should be contributing more to it. The flag line is basically arcing it in the back for the opener, and I'm not sure I always see the music reflected in the work - it's like sometimes they spin for spins sake. Still don't think the hoops and sticks add anything and still think their movement design is awkward. They are getting better - but that will only help max out performance - not design

Bluecoats

They didn't have the greatest run last night. Seemed super nervous and were making little mistakes left and right. I wasn't sure at the beginning of the season how they would be able to interpret this theme - but they have found some incredibly effective and orignal ways to make the music come to life visually - really great to watch. Awesome design team guard wise (lord knows I would have had a super hard time writing to that music !!!!)

Blue Devils

Another guard that didn't perform up to potential last night. I think judges might be rewarding their reputation more than the actual show on the field last night. Some messy moments and uncharacteristically cheesy things too (the oversize princess dress ???). The Blue Devils have a ton of little intricacies in their work that can't really be seen from far away - and I always appreciate that, but I do feel that they also get away with more as they can restage in free form with no equipment work and never seem to get called out on it. Individual responsibilities are not to the level of Crown - but the members commit to their performance 100% - which can hide some flaws.

My top 5 guards last night in order

Carolina Crown

Vanguard

Bluecoats

Blue Devils

Blue Stars

Later,

Mike

Great analysis. I really enjoyed reading your comments on each of the guards. I can't remember if I've ever seen as good of a write up for the guard. Not that guard is overlooked. It's just that by the nature of what they do, it's easy to focus on a drop, a spin not in unisen, or some other execution issue. I'm not a guard person (experience with brass and percussion), but it never ceases to amaze me that some of the best guards in DCI never, ever stop practicing. Next time you're at an ensemble practice or in the lot before or after performance, note the guard spinning/practicing - always spinning, spinning, spinning... they never quit.

[MisterA]

I agree with OP on a lot of the comments on the guards. I think what surprises me most on the scoring from San Antonio is that Blue Devils were 1st in content. I don't think Blue Devils have the most difficult guard work of any of the corps. I don't even know if they are top 5 from a difficulty level. Performance level I would have them in 3rd or 4th, but content I would probably have them 5th or 6th. There are probably close to 3 full minutes of their show with no guard work. Opener has them coming out from behind in random dance moves. Kpop number has them in block formation with the rest of the corps which seems like a mistake as it doesn't add anything to that block at all. And they do spend more time than other corps it seems in getting to new sets with no guard work, and random leg kicks and spins. They also waste about 30 seconds bringing out the poles. The dancing doesn't seem to be very effective either. I am not sure how they are ranking #1 in content score. I do like the show INK and they do have my favorite ballad of the season. But I am baffled by their guard scores being as high as they are. I think it is kind of disappointing given the amount of talent in their guard line, that the level of difficulty in their show isn't higher. I know people complain that BD plays to the judges sheets, but I would say Cadets and Crown guard play more towards the sheets this season, and are more difficult and performed at a higher level, but for some reason aren't receiving the same scores as BD. This is after seeing the show live twice and on DCI live streaming, and replaying it back several times the last couple of days.

[GUARDLING]

I agree with OP on a lot of the comments on the guards. I think what surprises me most on the scoring from San Antonio is that Blue Devils were 1st in content. I don't think Blue Devils have the most difficult guard work of any of the corps. I don't even know if they are top 5 from a difficulty level. Performance level I would have them in 3rd or 4th, but content I would probably have them 5th or 6th. There are probably close to 3 full minutes of their show with no guard work. Opener has them coming out from behind in random dance moves. Kpop number has them in block formation with the rest of the corps which seems like a mistake as it doesn't add anything to that block at all. And they do spend more time than other corps it seems in getting to new sets with no guard work, and random leg kicks and spins. They also waste about 30 seconds bringing out the poles. The dancing doesn't seem to be very effective either. I am not sure how they are ranking #1 in content score. I do like the show INK and they do have my favorite ballad of the season. But I am baffled by their guard scores being as high as they are. I think it is kind of disappointing given the amount of talent in their guard line, that the level of difficulty in their show isn't higher. I know people complain that BD plays to the judges sheets, but I would say Cadets and Crown guard play more towards the sheets this season, and are more difficult and performed at a higher level, but for some reason aren't receiving the same scores as BD. This is after seeing the show live twice and on DCI live streaming, and replaying it back several times the last couple of days.

Its not just about difficult, or how high or how many times someone tosses 7s. guard have evolved way beyond that for quite sometime already.

It's also not just about writing something hard , it's writing something right for the production. The others you mentioned have a different approach for sure and at a very high level. now , if one like one or the other it becomes just a matter of taste.

Sometimes when a guard looks effortless that can be much harder than the sweat and grunting of another..Just a thought, in general.

I think Marilyn Monroe said once ' It takes a smart brunette to play a dumb blonde...lol.....ok that has nothing to do with this , but you get the idea...lol

Edited July 24, 2015 by GUARDLING

[MisterA]

Its not just about difficult, or how high or how many times someone tosses 7s. guard have evolved way beyond that for quite sometime already.

It's also not just about writing something hard , it's writing something right for the production. The others you mentioned have a different approach for sure and at a very high level. now , if one like one or the other it becomes just a matter of taste.

Sometimes when a guard looks effortless that can be much harder than the sweat and grunting of another..Just a thought, in general.

I think Marilyn Monroe said once ' It takes a smart brunette to play a dumb blonde...lol.....ok that has nothing to do with this , but you get the idea...lol

I agree guards have evolved. And i agree that the way the guard fits into the show is important. And some of it is a matter of opinion. In my opinion, and I am a fan of Blue Devils, I don't feel that their guard is incorporated any better than either Crown or Cadets at this point. There is a lot of dead time for their guard, and a lot of their dance doesn't seem to add much. And after you add the level of difficulty, it seems to me Crown and Cadets should be about 3-4 tenths higher in the content subcaption. An example of one of the issues I see is the Kpop section, there is the hornline down on their knees bopping out to the song playing. During that time, the 30 plus guard members join that block. This makes no sense as the block whether it has 70 horn players, or 100 horn players and colorguard, doesn't really make a difference. It doesn't do anything for the general effect of that block. It seems like the guard should be doing something to accentuate what the block is doing. Someone earlier posted how they waste a lot of transition time were they will grab a flag or piece of equipment and just randomly run or walk to their next set. So today while rewatching I really paid a lot of attention to that. I have noticed that in the past but it seems like a little more than normal this year. I am more disappointed in the staff and designers who set it up this way. I think BD has one of the most talented guards on the field, and I just feel like they aren't showing off what they are capable of doing. I feel like it is similar to when Cadets have one of the best hornlines around, and decide to cover it up with narration during the entire show, or when Bluecoats have a great hornline, and decide to cover it up completely with synth. There are parts of all these shows that I love, but just feel like the judges sheets maybe need to be tweaked. It seems if 4 corps are doing guard work that really enhance the show, and are all performing it at the same level, that the level of difficulty should start to separate the 4 in score a little bit. If the entire rifle line throwing an 8 enhances the show at that moment, and they execute perfectly, then yes they should be getting a little more credit that a rifle line that is using half the line to throw a 4, or random 7s, 8s and 9s. Although I do disagree slightly on your opinion of content score simply because how well the guard is fitting into the show or how easy they make it looks, seems like it would be more in the visual GE judging, where as the content of the colorguard should reflect only the colorguard and level of difficulty and level of execution performed by the colorguard.

And I like your reference to Marilyn Monroe, and liken it to Gracie Allen who was one of the most talented actors who was very intelligent, but able to convince everyone she didn't have a clue.

[GUARDLING]

I agree guards have evolved. And i agree that the way the guard fits into the show is important. And some of it is a matter of opinion. In my opinion, and I am a fan of Blue Devils, I don't feel that their guard is incorporated any better than either Crown or Cadets at this point. There is a lot of dead time for their guard, and a lot of their dance doesn't seem to add much. And after you add the level of difficulty, it seems to me Crown and Cadets should be about 3-4 tenths higher in the content subcaption. An example of one of the issues I see is the Kpop section, there is the hornline down on their knees bopping out to the song playing. During that time, the 30 plus guard members join that block. This makes no sense as the block whether it has 70 horn players, or 100 horn players and colorguard, doesn't really make a difference. It doesn't do anything for the general effect of that block. It seems like the guard should be doing something to accentuate what the block is doing. Someone earlier posted how they waste a lot of transition time were they will grab a flag or piece of equipment and just randomly run or walk to their next set. So today while rewatching I really paid a lot of attention to that. I have noticed that in the past but it seems like a little more than normal this year. I am more disappointed in the staff and designers who set it up this way. I think BD has one of the most talented guards on the field, and I just feel like they aren't showing off what they are capable of doing. I feel like it is similar to when Cadets have one of the best hornlines around, and decide to cover it up with narration during the entire show, or when Bluecoats have a great hornline, and decide to cover it up completely with synth. There are parts of all these shows that I love, but just feel like the judges sheets maybe need to be tweaked. It seems if 4 corps are doing guard work that really enhance the show, and are all performing it at the same level, that the level of difficulty should start to separate the 4 in score a little bit. If the entire rifle line throwing an 8 enhances the show at that moment, and they execute perfectly, then yes they should be getting a little more credit that a rifle line that is using half the line to throw a 4, or random 7s, 8s and 9s. Although I do disagree slightly on your opinion of content score simply because how well the guard is fitting into the show or how easy they make it looks, seems like it would be more in the visual GE judging, where as the content of the colorguard should reflect only the colorguard and level of difficulty and level of execution performed by the colorguard.

And I like your reference to Marilyn Monroe, and liken it to Gracie Allen who was one of the most talented actors who was very intelligent, but able to convince everyone she didn't have a clue.

I do hear what you are saying and know how you would feel this way. I also at one time did. Now i look at many more aspects of what we do . even the random walk to a set is far from random. Scatter drills , when done well are so detailed to be the same each and every time I have often said that cleaning that verses clean a company front or a rotating box is way easier. does one look alot harder than the other YES for sure IS IT? well that's a debate I guess.

I think it does reflect more in the GE area BUT there is also way more ways to create effect and boost content than the obvious sometimes. Don't get me wrong , there is nothing like watching a guard do something all together as a solid wall of color or everthing flying in the air. It's just not the only way and content as much as GE can also be a little subjective on what's hard, effective to the contribution to the production etc etc..

So I guess what I'm saying is i dont think you are wrong just saying there might be other ways to look at it. As a designer for many years and a judge i do appreciate your take on how others may view something or how many can look at the very same thing and see something very different. i think that's the beauty of the activity today.