Tobias Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) 2014 didn't have the sustained blizzard of notes rammed by brass and percussion that 2015 had (Shosty vs Copland); but within the context of musical phrasing, precision exposure and field coverage, 2014 was deceptively difficult; and without the dubious cheese, I will always think of the 2014 Cadets as a silver level ensemble. I will never think of the 2015 Cadets as a 4th place ensemble....ridiculous.Well I could honestly say the Cadets certainly do not get the benefit of the doubt from the DCI judges. They seem to hammer them at the end of the season and I was at INDY and their finals performance was magnificent. I also don't buy the "design" issue. It was a cohesive, well constructed show performed at a very very high level. I do hope Cadets start writing shows to the sheets because those kids deserve better than getting dumped the last week of the season especially when you have an OTT award winning brass line and arguably a SANFORD award winning percussion.All my opinion of course. Edited August 20, 2015 by Tobias 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Using a mello to prove most difficult show will never work for me; mellos are the easy, wimpy version of French horns Many music books now seem easier due to drill demands... then factor in the composition of current corps and what they achieve versus the members they have access to...then the amount of acceptable dirt today, the way guards are designed etc Id guess the most difficult shows were late 80s early 90s, sort of a transition phase in design and memberships I honestly don't think you can compare the level of demand now with a show from the eighties. Sorry but not buying that. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 While what was attempted in the '80's and somewhat in later '90's marked new eras of drum corps design and performance skills, what has been attempted at present has a greater multi-faceted demand on the performer than in that past century. I do agree with what Cowtown is saying between the lines, that the judging standards of execution have changed, some of it glossed in light of the demands in the 21st century. The addition of the third valve, the whole restructuring of the guard activity, and the addition of visual demands particularly on the percussion section make the comparison a case of apples and oranges. Things pioneered in the 20th century have become de rigeur for those performing in the 21st. Few and far between now are the execution oriented feeder corps which trained marchers like the 20th century. (The performances of SCV Cadets and 7th Regiment stand out as exceptions to that rule. Well done, both.) The marching band programs which form today's DCI performers are also more rewarded for design than execution and the eligible generation inherits that stance. Even to refer to the present members as performers than as marching members bespeaks the whole shift of philosophies and demands. Cadets Z-pull is considered old hat, guards who don't dance well are punished, and drumming grows more and more complex. Only the top scorers are usually as precise as past generations and many recent championship week performances and scores can point to the discrepancy. (Such as how does a top guard "win" the award with multiple equipment drops or "high visuals" corps have falling drummers and contra basses?) Different century, different philosophies, same basics but just not highlighted the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dans Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Well I could honestly say the Cadets certainly do not get the benefit of the doubt from the DCI judges. They seem to hammer them at the end of the season and I was at INDY and their finals performance was magnificent. I also don't buy the "design" issue. It was a cohesive, well constructed show performed at a very very high level. I do hope Cadets start writing shows to the sheets because those kids deserve better than getting dumped the last week of the season especially when you have an OTT award winning brass line and arguably a SANFORD award winning percussion. All my opinion of course. I almost always feel that the judges get the placements correct in the end. However, the 2015 Cadets were NOT evaluated objectively at finals. It's humorous to see all the criticism of the Cadets intended to justify their 4th place finish. 4th place was an injustice to this beast of a corps. And I am sick of hearing that any of the top 4 could of won this year. The judges made it pretty clear down the stretch that the Cadets didn't have a chance of finishing in the top 3; not a fan of DCI judging (and I use the term loosely!). Rant over, the abuse will start now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I almost always feel that the judges get the placements correct in the end. However, the 2015 Cadets were NOT evaluated objectively at finals. It's humorous to see all the criticism of the Cadets intended to justify their 4th place finish. 4th place was an injustice to this beast of a corps. And I am sick of hearing that any of the top 4 could of won this year. The judges made it pretty clear down the stretch that the Cadets didn't have a chance of finishing in the top 3; not a fan of DCI judging (and I use the term loosely!). Rant over, the abuse will start now.A lot of DCP posters may not admit it, but Cadets did get the shaft. In fact the top 4 even if the placements remained, should have all been within a point. That gap that opened in 2 nights was an glaring embarrassment for the DCI judging process. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 A lot of DCP posters may not admit it, but Cadets did get the shaft. In fact the top 4 even if the placements remained, should have all been within a point. That gap that opened in 2 nights was an glaring embarrassment for the DCI judging process. The gap that opened was not some concerted effort as you seem to suggest. The Cadets were a very strong corps musically. But when GE starts to surge for certain corps or Cadets do not perform well in certain captions visually, all the little .1 and .2 spreads really start to add up. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumManTx Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 The gap that opened was not some concerted effort as you seem to suggest. The Cadets were a very strong corps musically. But when GE starts to surge for certain corps or Cadets do not perform well in certain captions visually, all the little .1 and .2 spreads really start to add up. Last part is pretty important. Little spreads like that across the board start to add up quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) Yes,... imo, a compelling case can be made that the 2015 Cadets show was "the hardest show ever". There could be a few others over the years that could be be considered for this as well. But I would at least put this year's 2015 Cadets show in the conversation for this anyway. The fact that the 2015 Cadets field musicians were playing their instruments a lot during their high velocity, high demand, high BPM's tempos for much of this years show, puts them in the legitimate conversation for this anyway,imo. That said, you'd have to believe that the Cadets will probably rethink this type of high velocity drill show design now.... or at least rethink playing the instruments so much when engaged in the exceedingly high MM demand, high velocity drill portions of their show. Edited August 21, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Yes,... imo, a compelling case can be made that the 2015 Cadets show was "the hardest show ever". There could be a few others over the years that could be be considered for this as well. But I would at least put this year's 2015 Cadets show in the conversation for this anyway. The fact that the 2015 Cadets field musicians were playing their instruments a lot during their high velocity, high demand, high BPM's tempos for much of this years show, puts them in the legitimate conversation for this anyway,imo. That said, you'd have to believe that the Cadets will probably rethink this type of high velocity drill show design now.... or at least rethink playing the instruments so much when engaged in the exceedingly high MM demand, high velocity drill portions of their show. But remember the type of show the Cadets' designers wrote in all regards this summer was in direct response to the end of season evaluations authored by the marching members of the Cadets at the end of the past few seasons. They didn't want to be like everyone else, they didn't pay probably the highest tour fees in the activity to park and bark, they asked specifically for a show with the same velocity drill that challenged corps of Cadets in the '80's and '90's and very early 2000's. They specifically asked that it be a vintage Cadet style show, not a BOA style show, not a Texas band style show, not a WGI style show, not a color guard show with musical accompaniment. Those who marched Cadets horn and drum lines, who won this season's Ott and almost won the Sanford too, could have qualified for many other DCI finalist corps. They chose Cadets and chose to stay with the show that was given them, even in the blackest moments. Ask Hopkins, he'll show the evaluation sheets if you ask nicely. The MMs played and marched exactly what they asked for and enjoyed it immensely. The BD philosophy of the ring as the only thing isn't what this Cadet season was about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) But remember the type of show the Cadets' designers wrote in all regards this summer was in direct response to the end of season evaluations authored by the marching members of the Cadets at the end of the past few seasons. They didn't want to be like everyone else, they didn't pay probably the highest tour fees in the activity to park and bark, they asked specifically for a show with the same velocity drill that challenged corps of Cadets in the '80's and '90's and very early 2000's. They specifically asked that it be a vintage Cadet style show, not a BOA style show, not a Texas band style show, not a WGI style show, not a color guard show with musical accompaniment. Those who marched Cadets horn and drum lines, who won this season's Ott and almost won the Sanford too, could have qualified for many other DCI finalist corps. They chose Cadets and chose to stay with the show that was given them, even in the blackest moments. Ask Hopkins, he'll show the evaluation sheets if you ask nicely. The MMs played and marched exactly what they asked for and enjoyed it immensely. The BD philosophy of the ring as the only thing isn't what this Cadet season was about. Well, if The Cadets want to stay with this formula that did not medal this year, its their choice. I did very much enjoy this type of high velocity drill, and irrespective of what the judges are currently rewarding, I too hope the Cadets keep this type of show for 2016, as it was a crowd pleaser, and one of their most crowd pleasing shows in a few years, imo. The fact the MM's chose this type of show, and enjoyed performing it " immensely " is all one needs to know that is not governed by placements. Edited August 21, 2015 by BRASSO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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