heartskipsabeat Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Serious question: Had the Blue Devils done Kinetic Noise would there be this debate? hellz no...give credit where credit is due- At least they didnt change their uniforms midstream? like HUH? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snare_guy_83 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 hellz no...give credit where credit is due- At least they didnt change their uniforms midstream? like HUH? Thank you! I haven't been a huge BD fan for a while, but I still can appreciate and acknowledge there level of excellence and innovation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 they already have - this season we're seeing a lot of "Tilt" imitators in the band world. Next year it will spread IMO into other corps I'd also argue that BD may not have tried their "K Pop" without the blatant success of the TILT chord the prior year - BD was quite burned for some of their earlier attempts in this direction popular shows always get copied a lot right after they happen. Do you know how many Les Miz shows I saw in 1990 and again in 2014? one offs don't count. Until you see the ideas offered the last two years by Bloo become a staple of the activity, then it's game changer. even with Star 93, you couldn't really say that the ideas there truly took hold until 2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) popular shows always get copied a lot right after they happen. Do you know how many Les Miz shows I saw in 1990 and again in 2014? one offs don't count. Until you see the ideas offered the last two years by Bloo become a staple of the activity, then it's game changer. even with Star 93, you couldn't really say that the ideas there truly took hold until 2000. Clearly, George is talking about the future, and he believes that almost all corps will, in the future, use elements of sound and electronic/analog integration in ways that can be tied back to what 'Coats did this year. I don't know, but I wonder if George can tell me what the Fed will do tomorrow and how the market will react. I have a sense that he's probably right about the electronics and show design (if only because arrangers with "only" six voices are out of ideas). Edited September 16, 2015 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Clearly, George is talking about the future, and he believes that almost all corps will, in the future, use elements of sound and electronic/analog integration in ways that can be tied back to what 'Coats did this year. I don't know, but I wonder if George can tell me what the Fed will do tomorrow and how the market will react. I have a sense that he's probably right about the electronics and show design (if only because arrangers with "only" six voices are out of ideas). I can tell you what the Fed will do, and i'll be laughing for weeks because of the over reaction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I can tell you what the Fed will do, and i'll be laughing for weeks because of the over reaction Yea, but this is George's dream, not yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 exactly. in 5 years maybe we'll look back and see it as a game-changing shift. That's actually the (predictive) point of the thread. I "think so" and "time will tell" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 I agree completely. This show was ground breaking and not given it's due. You can tell by a few of the comments here on how little is actually understood of what they pulled off from a mic, delay, and sound augmentation standpoint. They broke new ground on how they had to set this up in terms of cabling, repeaters, etc. From talking to a few members, the listening requirements on the field were pretty ridiculous at times. This video helped open my eyes to the complexity of what they were pulling off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxYtu9j3gZA I can't wait to see what they do in 2016. I hope they push this more. Thanks for the link - and you get it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 I actually had some of the same thoughts, but time has given me a slightly different perspective than George. I could write a dissertation on this, but I think I can keep it short. The similarities with Star 1993 (and really 1991-1993) with Bluecoats 2015 (and really 2014 too) are easy to see. Both expanded the acceptable range of what an attendee might see within the confines of competition. There's no doubt that both groups are pushing the concepts of "what drum corps is" in a competitive setting. That's where this seems to end for me. The differences are much more stark: Star's performance differs because the composition chosen was otherwise deemed unsuitable for the field. If we're honest, the Bluecoats arrangements didn't seem "genre-busting" in any way. Star used the field for spatial stereoscopic effects, sometimes called podding. Pods had been around earlier than that, for sure - it was a "thing" in the mid-80's. You always broke up your drumline for quick pod hits that A/B back and forth, and brought it together as an artificial crescendo for the "drum solo" (remember those?). Star went far beyond simple podding, and did what the Beatles did when you listened to headphones - it gave a true spacial experience. The impetus was moved around the field in a way never seen before. I would argue that while the Bluecoats did a great deal of this, it was not new but using the new tools. The Bluecoats did this with their electronics; for sure a first in how, but not groundbreaking outside of being the first to truly use electronics *to their advantage* and *as an instrument* unto itself. Speaking of, the Bluecoats finally cracked the code of using electronics to augment their instrumentation *as an instrument*. Much as you see those who use electronics in their art, this was no longer reinforcement or running something through a filter. It wasn't a *setting*, rather the sampling and motion were used in a dynamic way to process and then produce. That is art, and for this, the Bluecoats did in fact break new ground. It's been a decade in coming, but here it is. So, in the interest of brevity (because there really is a lot more to this), my view of the Bluecoats-Star associative innovation is simply that they were both under-appreciated at the time they were judged. They broke ground in different areas, but I think the Bluecoats are getting a little too much credit for the things that Star did. Only an organization that was leaving the field would ever do a mic-drop quite like Star. However, the Bluecoats innovations should not be undervalued either. As it relates to electronics on the field, they were innovative. Instead of hamster effects, they are now the torch bearers for how it can work in the favor of your music, and not just in a "what does this button do" reactive mentality. great post - agree on much of this! Especially the "Mic-drop" aspect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 Clearly, George is talking about the future, and he believes that almost all corps will, in the future, use elements of sound and electronic/analog integration in ways that can be tied back to what 'Coats did this year. I don't know, but I wonder if George can tell me what the Fed will do tomorrow and how the market will react. I have a sense that he's probably right about the electronics and show design (if only because arrangers with "only" six voices are out of ideas). The fed won't raise rates and the market will fall on the initial news and then rally :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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