corpsband Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Agreed "we'll see" - but changing the entire way the drum corps idiom is orchestrated isn't really a "gimmick" - a gimmick (for example) is a great big fabric banner. JMO It's what THEY do for now. I dont see the entire drum corps idiom changing. Maybe it will -- but somehow I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 But they haven't done that. They've done that for their last 2 shows, but the activity as a whole hasn't done that. Whereas Star 93 incorporated innovations that started being used in 1994 and are still being used today. That's the difference and it's too early to know if the Bluecoats have had that influence, my thought will be no though. And we'll see in the coming years how much it is.... Q: would 2015 BD have done "KPOP" without 2014 Bluecoats success with the "TILT CHORD"??? I honestly think not. Success with the moment reassured designers and opened up the idiom a little. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) But they haven't done that. They've done that for their last 2 shows, but the activity as a whole hasn't done that. Whereas Star 93 incorporated innovations that started being used in 1994 and are still being used today. That's the difference and it's too early to know if the Bluecoats have had that influence, my thought will be no though. exactly. in 5 years maybe we'll look back and see it as a game-changing shift. Edited September 16, 2015 by corpsband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snare_guy_83 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Let's just have everyone go back to this and stop arguing... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELDQCcHeF2E 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Lancer Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 so - to define the word being used here: (sounds to me like it refers more to uniforms that change color, sashes that light up, big banners of fabric - there's nothing wrong with those but Coats was more of a complete "approach" than a "trick") gim·mick ˈɡimik/ noun a trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or business. Ah, but see? That isn't the definition of gimmick anymore. Just as "sound engineering in this show has redefined what can be done," as Mr. Boo so enthusiastically put it, Bluecoats have also redefined what "gimmick" means. "Gimmick" now means "innovation in orchestration and/or soundscape to create a whole greater than its constituent parts." I say, viva la gimmick! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Your pension plan must be heavily invested in Cesario-wear or Stan Berry's stock with your frequent assertions that various corps switch to "contemporary costuming." The off-kilter bloo wear is rather modern compared to their history of Canton clothes. Of course, what is "modern" is quite subjective, like most DCI (and DCP) judging. Oh, more so than Cesario-wear, etc...IMO drum corps designs/performances will become something more along the lines of "Music and Visual Performance Ensembles" and all it entails visually and musically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcat Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I actually had some of the same thoughts, but time has given me a slightly different perspective than George. I could write a dissertation on this, but I think I can keep it short. The similarities with Star 1993 (and really 1991-1993) with Bluecoats 2015 (and really 2014 too) are easy to see. Both expanded the acceptable range of what an attendee might see within the confines of competition. There's no doubt that both groups are pushing the concepts of "what drum corps is" in a competitive setting. That's where this seems to end for me. The differences are much more stark: Star's performance differs because the composition chosen was otherwise deemed unsuitable for the field. If we're honest, the Bluecoats arrangements didn't seem "genre-busting" in any way. Star used the field for spatial stereoscopic effects, sometimes called podding. Pods had been around earlier than that, for sure - it was a "thing" in the mid-80's. You always broke up your drumline for quick pod hits that A/B back and forth, and brought it together as an artificial crescendo for the "drum solo" (remember those?). Star went far beyond simple podding, and did what the Beatles did when you listened to headphones - it gave a true spacial experience. The impetus was moved around the field in a way never seen before. I would argue that while the Bluecoats did a great deal of this, it was not new but using the new tools. The Bluecoats did this with their electronics; for sure a first in how, but not groundbreaking outside of being the first to truly use electronics *to their advantage* and *as an instrument* unto itself. Speaking of, the Bluecoats finally cracked the code of using electronics to augment their instrumentation *as an instrument*. Much as you see those who use electronics in their art, this was no longer reinforcement or running something through a filter. It wasn't a *setting*, rather the sampling and motion were used in a dynamic way to process and then produce. That is art, and for this, the Bluecoats did in fact break new ground. It's been a decade in coming, but here it is. So, in the interest of brevity (because there really is a lot more to this), my view of the Bluecoats-Star associative innovation is simply that they were both under-appreciated at the time they were judged. They broke ground in different areas, but I think the Bluecoats are getting a little too much credit for the things that Star did. Only an organization that was leaving the field would ever do a mic-drop quite like Star. However, the Bluecoats innovations should not be undervalued either. As it relates to electronics on the field, they were innovative. Instead of hamster effects, they are now the torch bearers for how it can work in the favor of your music, and not just in a "what does this button do" reactive mentality. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 And we'll see in the coming years how much it is.... Q: would 2015 BD have done "KPOP" without 2014 Bluecoats success with the "TILT CHORD"??? I honestly think not. Success with the moment reassured designers and opened up the idiom a little. JMO Are you serious? A chord on a synth caused BD to use KPOP? Wow, that's reaching if you ask me. I would equate BD using that piece the growing interest in KPOP, Manga, Anime, etc over the past few years, not because of a electronic pitch bend. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 so - to define the word being used here: (sounds to me like it refers more to uniforms that change color, sashes that light up, big banners of fabric - there's nothing wrong with those but Coats was more of a complete "approach" than a "trick") gim·mick ˈɡimik/ noun a trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or business. Sure, if we use your interpretation of the word, but thankfully words and definitions are fluid and can mean many things to many people, so those of us saying the Bluecoats are gimmicky, are correct in our interpretation. Since pitch bends, attempting surround sound on the field, syncing pre-recorded music are tricks, thus falling into that definition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Lancer Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Let's just have everyone go back to this and stop arguing... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELDQCcHeF2E You gotta love a corps that moons the audience! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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