corpsband Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) More saber rattling. I wonder why emotions are suddenly so high between these corps' fans these past couple of years? I understand that they're both East coast corps that score near the top of DCI, but Crown has a LOT of Cadet pedigree in their staffs, just like Star of Indiana did back in the day. Star didn't have any problem with The Cadets. I guess there's something I missing. Also, I get why George could be offended by Corpsband's comment. It made it sound like the Cadets are a "fly by the seat of your pants design" while BD and Crown plan things. ...but that's how it's always been. BD plans to win, Cadets work their butt off ( Crown is sorta a hybrid approach). This was something mentioned in those old telecast segments back in the day regarding East coast corps versus West coast corps... Things haven't changed, and there is no one right way to do things, just whatever works for the group. Gosh, I'm sounding like GUARDLING. no need for anyone to get their panty's in a bunch. there's no dig intended. it's just different styles of drum corps. there are only so many hours in day. each corps choses to spend them differently. (prior to 2016 at least) both bd and crown spent a lot more time on "dance". and (imho at least) it clearly shows up on the field. i just don't understand the compulsion some have to "make over" the cadets. they're in the mix every season. they have Sacktig and Bocook -- maybe the best music/visual combo in the activity. they don't NEED to be made over. Edited May 24, 2016 by corpsband 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 What this all boils down to for those diehard Cadets fans and alums is that they should be careful what they wish for. If they truly want the Cadets to compete, they're going to have to let go of a lot of that traditional persona which made the Cadets so unique in the first place. The Blue Devils gave up their commitment to jazz years ago (along with their identity IMO), and the activity is much lesser for it. I'd say it takes within five years before we see the Cadets ditch their traditional uniforms altogether. Maybe it allows them to win a few more DCI titles, I don't know. But DCI losing that Cadets identity would be a crying shame. One could argue to the contrary.... that if BD had stuck to "just jazz" all these years, they would risk being more stale than a loaf of month-old bread. I've been a BD fan...well... forever....LOL... and I admit some of their recent-vintage programing has left me scratching my head (like a drum corps friend of mine said, "they make it tough to be a fan of theirs sometimes").... but on balance, I'm glad they have tried programming other music and visual ideas than just jazz-oriented stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Last year, the Cadets probably did more body than I've ever seen them do before. Nearly every single brass feature (and there were many) had body underneath it, they executed it well, and they still played brilliantly while doing it. And considering the intense, aggressive, and (for lack of a better word) angular nature of much of the music they played while doing it, I thought it was very appropriately designed. As was the material (and overall visual presentation) of what they were doing in their ballad...one of the more interesting overall productions in DCI last summer IMO. What's holding them back the way I see it is that there is little room for variety in the manner by which corps present their designs. We've seen several references to it in the last few pages of this thread alone. If you're designing a show by ticking off these unwritten (but let's face it, COMPULSORY) elements, then creativity is stifled. Then there's the further unwritten matter of how much of something you do. There are those who will tell you that some hornlines play too much. Some corps march too much. This corps didn't do enough body. That corps didn't do enough "staging." Well, how much is too much? Or too little? Nobody in-the-know will ever say...because they don't really know themselves. But when you ask them why corps X didn't do as well as corps Y, they'll inevitably tell you one of those silly little unwritten "truths." It's sad to me that a corps can't play a full jazz-themed show anymore. Or decide to field a program of one stellar piece of music where the arrangement is more or less left alone and left to ebb and flow and develop the way it was originally intended. A corps would be out of their mind to try something like that nowadays, no matter how entertaining it might be. (* sidenote = As interesting as that opening choreo looks in that video above, I'm sure there will be those voices saying that it doesn't look good simply because of the Cadet-style uniform they wear and it will hold them back.) What this all boils down to for those diehard Cadets fans and alums is that they should be careful what they wish for. If they truly want the Cadets to compete, they're going to have to let go of a lot of that traditional persona which made the Cadets so unique in the first place. The Blue Devils gave up their commitment to jazz years ago (along with their identity IMO), and the activity is much lesser for it. I'd say it takes within five years before we see the Cadets ditch their traditional uniforms altogether. Maybe it allows them to win a few more DCI titles, I don't know. But DCI losing that Cadets identity would be a crying shame. BD isn't jazz anymore? What? They may not be fully dedicating their shows to jazz music anymore, but to say that BD has lost its jazz identity and sound is pretty ridiculous. Each of their shows since 2008 atleast have had pretty heavy jazz influences, especially 2011 and 2013, and I only point out those two years because the music was pretty jazz oriented. Their sound balance in the arrangements that they use keeps a jazz style and it's uniquely them. No other corps has their sound much like no other corps sounds like Crown and no other corps sounds like the Cadets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seen-it-all Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 One could argue to the contrary.... that if BD had stuck to "just jazz" all these years, they would risk being more stale than a loaf of month-old bread. I've been a BD fan...well... forever....LOL... and I admit some of their recent-vintage programing has left me scratching my head (like a drum corps friend of mine said, "they make it tough to be a fan of theirs sometimes").... but on balance, I'm glad they have tried programming other music and visual ideas than just jazz-oriented stuff. With that design team, and considering the amount of jazz literature that's out there yet to be explored, they could come up with a hundred different and extremely FRESH shows with completely different moods, textures, and styles and still not even scratch the surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seen-it-all Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 BD isn't jazz anymore? What? They may not be fully dedicating their shows to jazz music anymore, but to say that BD has lost its jazz identity and sound is pretty ridiculous. Each of their shows since 2008 atleast have had pretty heavy jazz influences, especially 2011 and 2013, and I only point out those two years because the music was pretty jazz oriented. Their sound balance in the arrangements that they use keeps a jazz style and it's uniquely them. No other corps has their sound much like no other corps sounds like Crown and no other corps sounds like the Cadets. I love when they dabble with jazz. So do audiences, it seems. But the identity I'm speaking about has nothing to do with dabbling, and YES, I feel they have left that one in a million identity behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) BD isn't jazz anymore? What? They may not be fully dedicating their shows to jazz music anymore, but to say that BD has lost its jazz identity and sound is pretty ridiculous. Each of their shows since 2008 atleast have had pretty heavy jazz influences, especially 2011 and 2013, and I only point out those two years because the music was pretty jazz oriented. Their sound balance in the arrangements that they use keeps a jazz style and it's uniquely them. No other corps has their sound much like no other corps sounds like Crown and no other corps sounds like the Cadets. I prefer BD of the past BUT around 2008 they morphed into a different BD that's kept them competitive monsters. I give them credit. The excellence has always been there.Cadets are morphing into something new this season. They knew it was time. Edited May 24, 2016 by Tobias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 no need for anyone to get their panty's in a bunch. there's no dig intended. it's just different styles of drum corps. there are only so many hours in day. each corps choses to spend them differently. (prior to 2016 at least) both bd and crown spent a lot more time on "dance". and (imho at least) it clearly shows up on the field. i just don't understand the compulsion some have to "make over" the cadets. they're in the mix every season. they have Sacktig and Bocook -- maybe the best music/visual combo in the activity. they don't NEED to be made over. The emboldened comment is completely on point. I do not believe that Cadets need to change their uniform design, etc etc. In my opinion, last year they were just outgunned by three other corps who performed their shows better than Cadets did (and not by that much). So all this stuff about Cadets needing a big change is kinda crazy to me. Yes, I realize they've made some big staff changes this year, but none of us are in a position at this point to determine whether or not the change will make a huge difference in August. As always, we shall see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadevilina Crown Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Exactly one month before the season begins and we're already up to 300 pages on the Cadets thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 http://youtu.be/tgw_kxJqRTs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) This isn't a BD thread so I won't get into if they OR Cadets are losing identity. IMO I don't think one loses identity just because they choose to evolve, make contemporary , and update for competition in 2016 an already strong presence . I think some can't see this , imo very clear identities of many of these corps who have been accused of leaving their roots behind. For me it's clear, and obvious with almost all of them but one has to be willing to see it. These identities are as strong as ever , I think identy is way stronger than a color, music arrangement style, if you step off with left or right foot etc etc....... jmo Edited May 24, 2016 by GUARDLING 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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