N.E. Brigand Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Mechanical and synchronization are two different sets of rights. Well, yeah, that's what I said. DCA has announced there will be no video (synchronization) or audio (mechanical) products released for 2015. Why not the latter? Especially if audio rights are compulsory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) Well, yeah, that's what I said. DCA has announced there will be no video (synchronization) or audio (mechanical) products released for 2015. Why not the latter? Especially if audio rights are compulsory? You still have to pay for them, and they can be *very* expensive (especially for corps that have a laundry list of tunes in their program). It's likely that DCA's cost benifit analysis for securing those rights didn't leave any profit, or worse...would have been a major loss to produce. The compulsory element also doesn't necessaily apply to arrangments of the original composition...it generally only applies to the original composition itself (and recordings thereof). Let's say you play one of my original compositions...I grant you arranging and performance rights. If I don't like your arrangement, it's well within my rights to deny your ability to release a CD recording for sale. But if you'd purchased the original composition and performed it as is, I can't deny you that permission. A great example of this in the real world would be how tightly Carl Orff's estate controls Carmina Burana. Arranging rights are rarely granted, and when they are, they've been known to restrict the mechanical liscence as well. Edited February 8, 2016 by Kamarag 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Holland Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 this is spot on. There's also several musicals created from a certain team that correspond to a certain high level choreographer, that when you agree to perform any of those shows, you MUST purchase and perform the choreography associated with that show. No ifs, ands, or butts. So if you used any music from that musical team/choreographer conceived shows, if they or their estate sees the music on screen, but not the choreography, they have the ability to say no, you can't put this in your video. You still have to pay for them, and they can be *very* expensive (especially for corps that have a laundry list of tunes in their program). It's likely that DCA's cost benifit analysis for securing those rights didn't leave any profit, or worse...would have been a major loss to produce. The compulsory element also doesn't necessaily apply to arrangments of the original composition...it generally only applies to the original composition itself (and recordings thereof). Let's say you play one of my original compositions...I grant you arranging and performance rights. If I don't like your arrangement, it's well within my rights to deny your ability to release a CD recording for sale. But if you'd purchased the original composition and performed it as is, I can't deny you that permission. A great example of this in the real world would be how tightly Carl Orff's estate controls Carmina Burana. Arranging rights are rarely granted, and when they are, they've been known to restrict the mechanical liscence as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 A great example of this in the real world would be how tightly Carl Orff's estate controls Carmina Burana. Arranging rights are rarely granted, and when they are, they've been known to restrict the mechanical liscence as well. Interesting you bring this specific one up, John. It's specifically stated in Orff's will the work is to be performed as is, and wasn't to be used commercially or re-arranged in any way, shape, or form. BITD for example, L'Offensive D'Jonquiere/aka Offensive Lions in I think 1980 did excerpts and no one cared. By the '90's that all began to really change. Local HS here around 1995ish did it, their arranger (IIRC Fawber and Fran know this fellow) contacted the estate via European Music IIRC, talked to a fellow with a heavy German accent. He initially said no.... then the real conversation started. Assurances the arrangement would clew faithfully to the originals. Still no.... But, what about the fact you sold the rights to HBO/Showtime for their TV ads in spite of Orff's wishes? Long Pause..... "Okay." The German fellow then sighed and then quoted very specific numbers for the rights. It was a tad pricey, 3-5K IIRC when the per performance quote was added up. Daggone nice show, too, very, very nice. I'm still proud the band I was assistant to the director and show coordinator at (real title should have been Mad Scientist...) was able to beat that masterpiece. I also evidently got an indoor percussion group cease and desisted in that period as well over Carmina Burana. I asked a friend how they managed to get the rights for the piece for their program. Evidently a competitor decided to screw them and blew the whistle. Cease and desist came out within a week or two, the team had to rewrite their entire program. Intellectual property is an extremely sticky wicket and has been bounced around here before. One of the tricks is to find composers who either don't ask for anything or very little. IIRC, Mike L. mentioned his band found the composer for "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" was exceptionally gracious and helpful. Don Ellis specifically stated in his will fees are zero for educational purposes. On the other hand you have Jack Stamp who I've heard says his Summer home was paid for by the Cavaliers, and Philip Sparke, who has lawyers chasing bands who use his compositions. One director told me you either pay the $3K to Sparke, or his lawyers will find you and slap a 5K fine on your organization. They paid Sparke legit to avoid the problems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Intellectual property is an extremely sticky wicket and has been bounced around here before. One of the tricks is to find composers who either don't ask for anything or very little. IIRC, Mike L. mentioned his band found the composer for "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" was exceptionally gracious and helpful. Tan Dun only charged us $75 for the use of any music from the film. That was a fun show musically, esp with our amazing cellist. We did a Bernstein show another year...music from "Chichester Psalms" and the "Mass". THAT contract from the rights-holder was very specific with parameters for arranging the music we had chosen. This year we went through Tresona...it was quite costly and they had all sorts of rules. Did some pop tunes.."Sounds of Silence", "I won't Give Up" and "Titanium"..cost over $300 for each chart...just to acquire arranging rights. Next year we're going back to the 19th century and will do the New World Symphony. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 How about a donation to DCI/DCA ? sure. got a few million laying around? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHall Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Not yet LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 That's what it will take. You figure minus 68, DCA has recordings from 65-14. Lee Ridnicki started warning people in 2002 licensing had to be dealt with. So when DCI or DCA reach out to these companies, these companies realize there are make good past fees due and you also have to deal with favored nations costs, I.e. If one company sets X fee and and another one sets Y fee higher, then X can demand y also. So DCA basically has 50 years of make goods plus negotiating current product. DCI has back to 72. If DCA recorded everyone at best you have 7 to 26 corps worth of shows to sift thru.....per year. DCI counting b class/a60/open pass/all girl could be what up to 80?90? Per year? Neither circuit can afford that and won't sell enough to make up for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlisko Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 >>>That's what it will take. You figure minus 68, DCA has recordings from 65-14. ... ... So DCA basically has 50 years of make goods plus negotiating current product. DCI has back to 72. If DCA recorded everyone at best you have 7 to 26 corps worth of shows to sift thru.....per year.<<< Not sure when DCA itself took of three recording of their Championship weekend ... but, wouldn't Fleetwood, Master Records, DCW, and the estates of Wateska, Dale Richards, Stetson D. Richmond and others also be at risk also? ... and not only for the Championships they recorded but, what about all the other shows like The Dream, Barnum, Mission Drums, Fresh Air Fanfare, Evening With the Corps, and on and on ... how could Fleetwood be able to put a Copyright label on each of their records? ... Would an agreement with ASCAP or BMI have protected them? ... This is really interesting ... and I'm curious ... because the Corps themselves never benefitted from the sale of any of their recordings (to my knowledge) back then ... (okay, maybe I-men when they released a 45 of Little Drummer Boy one Christmas) ... I'm not making light of anything but, IMO, it ain't just DCA that could be on the hook for some serious jing ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 >>>That's what it will take. You figure minus 68, DCA has recordings from 65-14. ... ... So DCA basically has 50 years of make goods plus negotiating current product. DCI has back to 72. If DCA recorded everyone at best you have 7 to 26 corps worth of shows to sift thru.....per year.<<< Not sure when DCA itself took of three recording of their Championship weekend ... but, wouldn't Fleetwood, Master Records, DCW, and the estates of Wateska, Dale Richards, Stetson D. Richmond and others also be at risk also? ... and not only for the Championships they recorded but, what about all the other shows like The Dream, Barnum, Mission Drums, Fresh Air Fanfare, Evening With the Corps, and on and on ... how could Fleetwood be able to put a Copyright label on each of their records? ... Would an agreement with ASCAP or BMI have protected them? ... This is really interesting ... and I'm curious ... because the Corps themselves never benefitted from the sale of any of their recordings (to my knowledge) back then ... (okay, maybe I-men when they released a 45 of Little Drummer Boy one Christmas) ... I'm not making light of anything but, IMO, it ain't just DCA that could be on the hook for some serious jing ... Those companies/individuals are absolutely at risk. And no, an agreement with ASCAP/BMI is not the same as securing synch/mechyanical rights. Like we've said before, drum corps in general has been blatantly abusing copyright for decades. I'll bet you dollars to donuts most of the recordings for sale in Drum Corps World aren't liscenced (the exception being the Star of Indiana/Blast/Brass Theater stuff). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.