84BDsop Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 New video! Loving this sound. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b9F-eAeeBk Would be nice to see/hear the same player on the same passage on a Bb sop, a 2 valve G sop (K-20, please), a 3 valve G sop, and a current Bb trumpet for a true comparison. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) I still think about how excited I am by these developments pretty much every day. It seems like the perfect compromise between reliable instruments that can play in tune and aren't impossible to work with, and ones that can project outdoors and feel unique to drum corps. I think as more corps start to adopt them, and Vance fills in the rest of the hornline, we'll start seeing less weird experimentation with trombones and synths and the like. I think Vance stated his initial focus was on HS marching band using these, a smart decision given the potential sales numbers. Drum corps could be used to feature them in marketing to the scholastic programs. I also don't see it leading to any decrease in the 'experimentation' of using other brass like french horns and trombones, and certainly no decline in the use of synths. Edited June 10, 2016 by MikeD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) No bashing here on Kanstul, but their Bb marching horns are OK. Part of the problem is that Kanstul had plenty of help when they switched to three-Valve G. The Blue Devils sent their brass staff to evaluate the prototypes before finalized the design for production. However, They did not get the help on Bb since everyone left them in 1999. So their Bb horns were shorter versions of their G horns, except they couldn't make their Bb trumpet to work with the K20 G bugle bell, so they settled on the power bore bell, which is an new invention during the late 1990's. If you can find the following recordings, you will hear the difference between each generations. 1986 Blue Devils 1988 Madison Scouts 1991 Phantom Regiment 1992 Cavaliers And fast forward to: 2001 Blue Devils 2002 Cavaliers 2003 Phantom Regiment You will hear a huge difference in sound. Because the soprano bell is with a much wider flare, the sound actually does not stand out. It blends with the mellophone much better than regular trumpet. And the loudness comes from the bottom, hence the old 5/4 Contrabass vs today's 4/4. The closest thing to G right now is Spirit, because their trumpet is with the powebore bell, still not the K20 but some what close. You will not hear the full glory of G until a top 12 corps uses it. Than again, only top 12 corps have the capacity to produce the full brass sound, no matter what key they are in. The best sounding Bb corps in my opinion is 2003 Phantom Regiment and 2004 Cavys. Seems like between 2005 to 2009, corps stop playing lyrics through brass, just ran around the field holding whole notes and let the percussion and pit do all the playing. The most fair comparison that you can make is based on the 2001 season recordings. There were 4 lines with Bb that year and everyone else had G. The only point of contention is that the Bb instruments that they used then, haven been slightly adjusted and modified since with respect to weight, bore size etc. But if you compare Phantom Regiment, Bluecoats, Glassmen, Crossmen with SCV, Cadets, Blue Devils and Cavaliers on the Buffalo finals week or mid-season San Antonio recordings... that is the clearest and most fair picture that you will get because they were recorded at the same place and same time on the same equipment. Yes, there is a difference. But I think that it has become more negligible these days with the increased use of the front ensemble, amplification, electronic instrumentation and changes to the Bb/F lines that has become typical. I.e. even if they were all playing G today... so many other things are different in orchestration that it would be hard to compare. Even then... the staging can lie a bit on the recordings. The Bluecoats (I was there) had a "drop the hammer" opening chord progression, but we were staged front field center, dead on to the mics. So there are other things in play there. Another possibility would be to compare something like the Concord Pavilion recordings from 1999 to 2000 for the Blue Devils (when they changed). Or compare the College Park finals week recordings between Cadets and Cavaliers in 2000 when they both tied for first (Cadets had the first Bb line with Devils and Cavaliers were on G, as I recall). Anyhow... the best comparison will be the one that is most equal and closest in time/proximity to the change. At least that's how my mind sees it. All those other recordings that Vance mentioned are fantastic examples as well, BTW... no disrespect to his point. Edited June 10, 2016 by cfirwin3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) I think Vance stated his initial focus was on HS marching band using these, a smart decision given the potential sales numbers. Drum corps could be used to feature them in marketing to the scholastic programs. I also don't see it leading to any decrease in the 'experimentation' of using other brass like french horns and trombones, and certainly no decline in the use of synths. Well, Cadets is using a solo string this year in the pit. I think you'll see soon see sax as well. BTW, you enjoy the music from the girl in your signature page? I grew up listening her songs. Edited June 10, 2016 by Vance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) If I could just once hear 80 current brass players in the Blue Devils, in a 2016 technology enhanced G format (ie, Sopranos ), I think I would just about uncontrollably soil myself. Edited June 10, 2016 by BRASSO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) If I could just once hear 80 current brass players in the Blue Devils, in a 2016 technology enhanced G format (ie, Sopranos ), I think I would just about uncontrollably soil myself. I just realized there is a 2015 Spirit of Atlanta DCI finals performance on Youtube. @ 1:27 you can heard the sound of Kanstul Powerbore, and the 5/4 Kanstul Tuba at the cord of that particular passage. The mellophone is still on the edgy side but that's what Kanstul are known for. It's actually very good. Specially at 3:50, 7:20 and 10:00, you can hear the blending of the cord with a clean solid note on top. The trumpets did not stick out near as much as the Yamaha and Jupiter horns. It's a shame that Yamaha and Jupiter have bought all the corps through sponsorship and contracts while refused to make horns that are truly for this activity. I bet you if they perform right before top five corps, people will think they're louder. I think my horns can do better, but at the moment I really dig the sound of Spirit of Atlanta. Kudos to them! Edited June 11, 2016 by Vance 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 I just realized there is a 2015 Spirit of Atlanta DCI finals performance on Youtube. @ 1:27 you can heard the sound of Kanstul Powerbore, and the 5/4 Kanstul Tuba at the cord of that particular passage. The mellophone is still on the edgy side but that's what Kanstul are know for. It's actually very good. Specially at 3:50, 7:20 and 10:00, you can hear the blending of the cord with a clean solid note on top. The trumpets don't stick out near as much as the Yamaha and Jupiter horns. It's a shame that Yamaha and Jupiter have bought all the corps through sponsorship and contracts. I bet you if they perform right before top five corps, people will think they're louder. I think my horns can do better, but at the moment I really dig the sound of Spirit of Atlanta. Kudos to them! Huh, I somehow never caught their show at all last year. This hornline sounds fantastic. It really is *so* much more about the make of instruments than people on DCP seem to believe, and not just the players. Blue Devils have the most talented players in the activity, but their sound does nothing for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Having seen the latest thread about "What was the last show that started loud?", I wonder if any of the WC drum corps might take a chance on this company?...Do we want to continue to hear concert band on the field? I am bias in my opinions here because I came from the G-bugle era....Please don't get me wrong I still enjoy what's being done today...but sometimes NOT ALL CHANGE IS PROGRESSIVE IMO... From the owner...DCP name (Vance) few key points: What made the old Drum Corps so much louder is due to two instruments, the Soprano and the Contrabass. The old King, Kanstul and Dynasty bugles were 5/4 Size, everything now from King, Yamaha and Jupiter are 4/4. Once I finish my next project of having a 5/4 on the market, it will change the landscape completely. Any World Class drum corps can produce the sound that has been missing since 2000. With 80 horns allowed instead of the old 64, they can be even louder than the G era! What made the G bugle, more specifically soprano so much more powerful than the trumpet lies in the nature of the design. The power of the sound is derives from the lead pipe; therefore, longer and uninterupted it is, bigger the punch. The two piston valves sopranos were the best bugle ever made. Without the third valve, the sound travels more freely with less energy lost. When they allowed the three valves version, the horns became stuffier and the volume of the horns actually dropped, what made the difference was the players. By the time it reach the 1990's, top 12 corps finally get to audition kids instead of taking anyone off the street who wants to march. The better players made the difference on the lost performance of the horns. You can also make the same claim with today's trumpets in drum corps. 2004 Cavaliers, 2008 Phantom Regiment, 2013 Crown were incredible lines, but they sound more like a great concert band than drum corps! If you're don't have experience with G era, find the following recordings: 1986 Blue Devils, 1988 Madison Scouts, 1989 Phantom Regiment, 1990 Star of Indiana, etc. Those corps generated some of loudest none amplified sound we have ever heard from out doors music activity. There is a good reason why people still talk about the old G bugle sound, because they were genuinely loud! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 Check out the videos posted on their Facebook page of the Raiders performance at open class championships. Tiny hornline, but I love the type of sound those instruments are promising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKSuperman Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Having seen the latest thread about "What was the last show that started loud?", I wonder if any of the WC drum corps might take a chance on this company?...Do we want to continue to hear concert band on the field? I am bias in my opinions here because I came from the G-bugle era....Please don't get me wrong I still enjoy what's being done today...but sometimes NOT ALL CHANGE IS PROGRESSIVE IMO... From the owner...DCP name (Vance) few key points: Calling it "Concert Band" is sort of demeaning to the performers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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