Liahona Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 (edited) The five man panel with no field judges *absolutely* serves the corps in the early season. There's really no need for performance caption judges at that point, and there's nothing they will tell that you don't already know. I was teaching a DCI brass line when the move to the five man panel started, and we loved it in the early season. I agree with you to a point...I just think giving the field judges more on-field time...might benefit them better as one of the judges has alluded to in his FB post...or just eliminate them all together Edited August 25, 2016 by Liahona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snare_guy_83 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 What happens to the battery book if there is no judge on the field? I believe this was discussed way earlier in this tread, pointing to the lack of complexity now in BOA. Plain and simple, you will never hear every note of a show from the battery. I get where Mike Jackson is coming from, but it would be a shame is these amazing books that are pushing the MM skill sets forward were watered down because they weren't getting the attention throughout the show. Could there be a "Battery Field Judge" and a "Front Ensemble Field Judge"? The current on field judge is having to split time between the two, which is causing more situations of weaving through brass and color guard drill. If the current Percussion Ensemble Judge became a "Front Ensemble Field Judge" this could allow a "Battery Field Judge" to stay with just battery. You could still average the two scores together for a total percussion score. As for the percussion ensemble as a whole being judged, couldn't that be incorporated into the Musical Analysis Judge's criteria, as well as "Music GE"? Can the drill writers give more space in front of the battery? I get that visually you want to have as much complexity as will allow, but could you create a bit of space for a judge to be on the field but not affect the other MMs? If a sub-caption is not able to be focused on the entirety of a show doesn't that take away from what that section is able to do? Will adding a bit more space decrease the Visual Analysis and "Visual GE" scores that much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Could there be a "Battery Field Judge" and a "Front Ensemble Field Judge"? I say if you going to do that..then take the percussion judge out of the stands altogether... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snare_guy_83 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I say if you going to do that..then take the percussion judge out of the stands altogether... Exactly, the current Percussion Ensemble Judge could become a "Front Ensemble Field Judge" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Could there be a "Battery Field Judge" and a "Front Ensemble Field Judge"? The current on field judge is having to split time between the two, which is causing more situations of weaving through brass and color guard drill. If the current Percussion Ensemble Judge became a "Front Ensemble Field Judge" this could allow a "Battery Field Judge" to stay with just battery. You could still average the two scores together for a total percussion score. As for the percussion ensemble as a whole being judged, couldn't that be incorporated into the Musical Analysis Judge's criteria, as well as "Music GE"? I've often wondered if the pits get judged fairly. They may be playing some real challenging stuff when the judge is checking on the percussion line. With the heavy involvement of the pit in the overall show, having a dedicated judge seems reasonable. Assign one of those field judges who don't like to move around much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snare_guy_83 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I've often wondered if the pits get judged fairly. They may be playing some real challenging stuff when the judge is checking on the percussion line. With the heavy involvement of the pit in the overall show, having a dedicated judge seems reasonable. Assign one of those field judges who don't like to move around much. Agreed, it's too hard for one person to cover so much space to judge both. Also, I'm starting to see more instances where the judge is up front and then a battery feature starts and they have to run through the corps to get to them and missed quite a bit by that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c mor Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 The majority of the ensemble judge comments are balance related. Caption heads obviously can't tell when the FE is louder than the brass. Perhaps they need more sensitivity training. Several corps leave space in their visual design for the judge to access the battery. Just make it required. I know, we can't expect to infringe on visual design genius. If Garfield hadn't made their drummers march sideways in the first place, none of this would be an issue. Blame them. The fact that a field judge only appeared at regionals signals the move away from that, and I expect them to be gone soon. Battery rammin' only happens during brief percussion breaks. At all other times they'll only be playing filler because of body movement requirements, and being sent to backfield no mans land design wise. Having a judge for each, battery and FE would certainly increase the percentage of the book that is judged. I'd be for that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Mike Jackson posted this on Facebook last night. The short: I'm officially altering my position on the DCI field percussion judge. I wasn't necessarily sold on the specificity of a field judge; more so, the lack of an alternative method to experience blend, balance, subtlety, and nuance from performer to performer. Moving forward, I'd like to see a field clear of adjudicators. If given the opportunity, I would vote as such. The long: In all these years, I have yet to be convinced that we have the consistent depth in our caption to truly benefit from the aforementioned opportunities. This is not meant as a derogatory remark. It's just the truth as I see it. The system does the best it can with all the imperfect variables in the mix. Do the judges get the exact and equal sampling from night to night, or corps to corps? No. Impossible. I am convinced the only way to truly level the playing field is by experiencing everyone in the exact same manner from the exact same position. As much as I'm going to miss the up-close-and-personal reads, they're too problematic and too inconsistent to truly be the equalizer they're meant to be. I also have to mention and somewhat concede the criticism this season regarding the safety of the performers. This, of course, is difficult to challenge. How does one take the stance against performer safety? Yikes. With that said, I think some of the criticism was unfair. Historically speaking, field judges have been around since...drum corps. Looking at some of the hyperbolic reactions, you'd think DCI had just implemented this method. I believe the field judges were unintentionally set up to fail. They were not implemented until later in the season, giving them less time to physically acclimate to the intricacies of each production. How could there not be issues? I didn't like seeing these individuals ridiculed, nor the system bashed for allowing this historically omnipresent approach to percussion evaluation. Yes, I believe it's time for a change. However, we can do it in a way that doesn't point fingers nor humiliate fellow humans. PM'd you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 What other competitive activity would accept an 18-24% sampling rate of an entire performance that is then decided by tenths and 100ths of a point? It's tantamount to giving Academy Awards voters random 5-minute samples (1 each) of the films being considered for Best Picture - not even the same samples for each voter. Yes, there was a time when two judges on the field could "camp out" and listen to the snares, actual tenors, and basses, because they stayed in "the pocket" and didn't move much. No keyboards, tympani, synths, speakers, or drill. As one who did it "then" and "now" - there is no comparison between eras. The performers and fans deserve better. I miss those days too, but they're over. This is such a false narrative it's almost utterly dismissible (witness the response by DCI to your analysis). Your position assumes that music adjudication is scientific, static, and myopic when nearly all of judging is subjective. Do you think there will be better "sampling" by taking the drum judge off the field? Or more accurate sampling? Or are these comments meant to obscure your primary contention that this is a safety issue (which has been completely debunked by historic experience)? Your own contentions are that the movement of the battery in modern drill makes center front-of-line "sampling" nearly impossible, but that same movement will by the same definition make sampling from the sidelines or box nearly impossible. What will result will be drumline judging based on visual cues and clues, and more elimination of execution quantification. And that's in the best case. In the worst case, arrangers will be HIGHLY incented to write simpler books and, as a result, plateau the technical playing advancements that have brought the modern drumline to its current prominence.in overall show design. I'd appreciate your clarification here of your involvement in the study that produces your statistics, and whether you have any musical experience and/or insurance industry experience. But you can, of course, maintain obscurity here if you prefer, as is the anonymous nature of the board. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 (edited) The majority of the ensemble judge comments are balance related. Caption heads obviously can't tell when the FE is louder than the brass. Perhaps they need more sensitivity training. Several corps leave space in their visual design for the judge to access the battery. Just make it required. I know, we can't expect to infringe on visual design genius. If Garfield hadn't made their drummers march sideways in the first place, none of this would be an issue. Blame them. The fact that a field judge only appeared at regionals signals the move away from that, and I expect them to be gone soon. Battery rammin' only happens during brief percussion breaks. At all other times they'll only be playing filler because of body movement requirements, and being sent to backfield no mans land design wise. Having a judge for each, battery and FE would certainly increase the percentage of the book that is judged. I'd be for that. I'm not sure how you define "battery rammin'", but this sentence is generally incorrect, and is absolutely incorrect in the case of Mike Jackson's writing. Just listen to the BK book when they're hustling back field and you'll see and hear that I'm right. Witness this fabulous video of Crown and watch/listen the snare's sticks at the opening of the video, and then at the end of the first piece. The drumline is at the back "providing fill" but I'd bet all but the most proficient of players, and surely almost all brass and visual judges cannot tell a difference in the difficulty of the books. Then watch the end of the video where there actually is just whole-note "fill" from the snares and you definitely tell a difference in the writing difficulty. This whole argument (not your post specifically) seems to conveniently dismiss the judging importance of "simultaneous demand" by ignoring the fact that it's harder to play a full, meaty book (like Jackson's) while moving than it is to play simple patterns - that may sound together from the sideline or box - while moving. Swinging the drums around, dipping to one knee, or playing upside down is NOT the kind of execution that adds to simultaneous demand in drum corps. Maybe on HS football fields or even in WGI, but not in the penultimate talent activity that makes DCI what it is. Don't dumb it down. Percussion music is as much visual as it is auditory and I've shown examples of that fact here many, many times. Edited August 26, 2016 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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