seen-it-all Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Just now, 2000Cadet said: Crown was part of YEA. They were never owned by YEA. Never a full program offering. Only under a paid consulting contract for a couple of years. (Same with Boston for one season, I believe.) Those corps maintained their own separate and sovereign boards of directors and organizational structures. The Crossmen were completely owned, name and all, by YEA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Just now, seen-it-all said: They were never owned by YEA. Never a full program offering. Only under a paid consulting contract for a couple of years. (Same with Boston for one season, I believe.) Those corps maintained their own separate and sovereign boards of directors and organizational structures. The Crossmen were completely owned, name and all, by YEA. Still part of YEA. But I get the point he was making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Just now, afd said: I guess the question is why has BD able to maintain their top status where as the Cadets seem to struggle for even top 3? Why just compare Cadets to BD? If it was so easy to compare to BD and be a top 3 corps then everyone would be top 3 (oh wait...not possible). Why hasn't SCV, Phantom, Madison, Crown, Bluecoats, you name it? Their histories don't even come close to comparing. Vanguard did until the 90s and onward. Nobody compares to BD for many reasons. BD is the largest organization. They are the IBM or Microsoft of the DCI world. They have 3 competitive corps (A, B, C). They have all kinds of other ensembles over the fall and winter. They have fund raising that no other corps, other than SCV, comes close to. They have lots of full-time positions. They can bring in full-time staff and train them before they take over various roles within the org. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brichtimp Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 13 minutes ago, jwillis35 said: Good point. As an outsider looking in I think it's been hard for fans and alumni of the Cadets to watch the past 4 years. When your history is so littered with championships and regional titles and top 3 finishes it can be tough to cut the chord and view this 2017 corps as a New Beginning. But it is a new beginning. If the sky is falling, as many have eluded to, it began to fall in 2006 and 2008. It fell further in 2010. They resurrected themselves for a while with 2011, 2012, and 2013. But in 2014 they took a potentially great show and killed it. In 2015 they had a silly show theme to go with the majestic works of Shostakovich. They had a championship music ensemble and still couldn't make the show work. They killed the GE with black uniforms, and ultimately they couldn't fine tune the guard. By 2016 it was clear they had fallen. Still had some talent, but the design was a mess. Kept changing the show. Nothing seemed to work. If they had normal talent that show would have finished in 9th or 10th. The present corps (2017) is almost entirely new staff and design team. They have many new marching members, and this style of show is quite different from their typical show -- not to mention the risk they are taking with Mass. It takes time when you put a new staff together. They will also have to develop these new members. I say this is the beginning of the new era for The Cadets. I think their members are doing a nice job. It's a much better show than last year, and their score last night was pretty good. Interesting that the shows in 2012, 2013 and 2014 were each criticized to some extent for issues around props (stage, boxes, monoliths, etc.). If I recall, they placed 4th, 3rd and 3rd respectively in those years. I wonder what they could or should have done differently to place higher each of those years.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afd Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 minute ago, jwillis35 said: Why just compare Cadets to BD? If it was so easy to compare to BD and be a top 3 corps then everyone would be top 3 (oh wait...not possible). Why hasn't SCV, Phantom, Madison, Crown, Bluecoats, you name it? Their histories don't even come close to comparing. Vanguard did until the 90s and onward. Nobody compares to BD for many reasons. BD is the largest organization. They are the IBM or Microsoft of the DCI world. They have 3 competitive corps (A, B, C). They have all kinds of other ensembles over the fall and winter. They have fund raising that no other corps, other than SCV, comes close to. They have lots of full-time positions. They can bring in full-time staff and train them before they take over various roles within the org. So my understanding it's all about money? I kinda have my opinions about this with the cadets and it's about GH. But I won't go there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, jwillis35 said: Why just compare Cadets to BD? If it was so easy to compare to BD and be a top 3 corps then everyone would be top 3 (oh wait...not possible). Why hasn't SCV, Phantom, Madison, Crown, Bluecoats, you name it? Their histories don't even come close to comparing. Vanguard did until the 90s and onward. Nobody compares to BD for many reasons. BD is the largest organization. They are the IBM or Microsoft of the DCI world. They have 3 competitive corps (A, B, C). They have all kinds of other ensembles over the fall and winter. They have fund raising that no other corps, other than SCV, comes close to. They have lots of full-time positions. They can bring in full-time staff and train them before they take over various roles within the org. I don't know much about BD's organization, but how often do they have staff turnover? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Just now, afd said: So my understanding it's all about money? I kinda have my opinions about this with the cadets and it's about GH. But I won't go there. No doubt money helps. Non profits like drum corps in DCI need cash. Look what has happened to Phantom and others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Wadep66 said: It's really a shame to see all the nay-saying in here. Are the Cadets only worthwhile if they are in the top 3? I've never felt that. Thank goodness for the alums and supporters of corps like Madison and Phantom who didn't dis them and throw in the towel when they aren't a top contender. Disappointing. Haha what? There's been plenty of flame throwing on the Scouts threads. Just as bad, and likely worse than Cadets threads. It's perhaps been going on longer and therefore run its course to a degree that it seems less bad this season. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afd Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, 2000Cadet said: I don't know much about BD's organization, but how often do they have staff turnover? Again this about who's in charge and what that persons wants and thinks about the organization. One thing that Gibbs does is let his creative staff do their thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, 2000Cadet said: I don't know much about BD's organization, but how often do they have staff turnover? When your top designers have full-time jobs with benefits then you don't lose them too often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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