henry7184 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said: Since you seem to be the second one to perceive something askew in my comment... Let me clarify: Refresh = good Winning designs = good 10+ years ago = NOT derogatory... It's a reference to the Cavaliers hard-hitting kaleidoscopic drill that Gaines lived by. It's back in SCV... It's a bummer that it ever left (IMO). That's all. I assumed the reference would be understood. I didn't think for one second that you were criticizing SCV at all. I just don't see it as a refresh, at all. If anything, 2016 was more of a refresh of designs from ten years ago. I loved that show, it was my favorite of the year last year, but I think this year's show is more modern, definitely in terms of staging, costuming, musical layering, electronics and props (things that really weren't present 10 years ago). 2017 SCV is as modern as modern can get in my opinion. Bluecoats were the innovators the last few years - elevating the use of electronics and electronic integration, elevating the use of props, elevating the use of staging, and costuming. SCV has embraced all of those innovations. Edited July 9, 2017 by henry7184 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedj2002 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said: Since you seem to be the second one to perceive something askew in my comment... Let me clarify: Refresh = good Winning designs = good 10+ years ago = NOT derogatory... It's a reference to the Cavaliers hard-hitting kaleidoscopic drill that Gaines lived by. It's back in SCV... It's a bummer that it ever left (IMO). That's all. Dear askewed, It's a matter of semantics, Your word choices, coupled with innate bias, and reluctance to accept what you say become offensive. Then your bewildered when called on it! I thought I was done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Just now, henry7184 said: I didn't think for one second that you were criticizing SCV at all. I just don't see it as a refresh, at all. If anything, 2016 was more of a refresh of designs from ten years ago. I loved that show, it was my favorite of the year last year, but I think this year's show is more modern, definitely in terms of staging, costuming, musical layering, electronics and props (thinks that really weren't present 10 years ago). 2017 SCV is as modern as modern can get in my opinion. Bluecoats were the innovators the last few years - elevating the use of electronics and electronic integration, elevating the use of props, elevating the use of staging, and costuming. SCV has embraced all of those innovations. You don't see the Gaines' drill (apparently written by Weber, but consulted by Gaines)? From the bits that I have seen... SCV looks like what Gaines had going on in the Glory days of the Cavaliers for the better part of the 2000's... only turned up to 11. It's awesome stuff. Kaleidoscopic, symmetric, block patterns, cyclic (obviously)... It's all in there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 10 minutes ago, whitedj2002 said: Dear askewed, It's a matter of semantics, Your word choices, coupled with innate bias, and reluctance to accept what you say become offensive. Then your bewildered when called on it! I thought I was done! He didn't think (for a second) that I was criticizing SCV. You are still alone... Give it a rest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry7184 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said: You don't see the Gaines' drill (apparently written by Weber, but consulted by Gaines)? From the bits that I have seen... SCV looks like what Gaines had going on in the Glory days of the Cavaliers for the better part of the 2000's... only turned up to 11. It's awesome stuff. Kaleidoscopic, symmetric, block patterns, cyclic (obviously)... It's all in there. Well, yes, I can see Gaines influence, but I can also see Weber's. I think it's 2017 Gaines/Weber, not 2002 Gaines. It's a great show. I don't see what you see, but to each his own. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 1 minute ago, henry7184 said: Well, yes, I can see Gaines influence, but I can also see Weber's. I think it's 2017 Gaines/Weber, not 2002 Gaines. It's a great show. I don't see what you see, but to each his own. Oh no... I don't mean to overshadow Weber. When I made that initial comment, I had been under the impression that it was just Gaines, but a couple of others clarified that Gaines was a consultant to Weber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry7184 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Just now, cfirwin3 said: Oh no... I don't mean to overshadow Weber. When I made that initial comment, I had been under the impression that it was just Gaines, but a couple of others clarified that Gaines was a consultant to Weber. You're not the only one that had that impression. I myself thought Gaines wrote it until I was corrected. :) He's a great addition to their team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vdad76 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 2 hours ago, henry7184 said: And you think you're going to get a decent conversation out of this? No, my friend. No. You obviously didn't get the point of my post. That everyone has issues right now. Everyone. 2 hours ago, henry7184 said: No you cannot. An 81.9 in Orlando doesn't mean an 81.9 in Minnesota or Seattle. Yes you can. If you can't, it's because you don't understand judging. The only thing you have correctly said is that 81.9 on one night is not 81.9 on another night. You cannot recreate environmental factors, but the fact that judges place a number on it, means you can compare it. Is an 81.9 given to a corps comparable as a corps winning with an 81.9 in another place - yes it is because it's a national linear scale used by all adjudicators for this specific set of performances. If they are put back to back, probably not, but it will not be an 81.9 and then a 77.5. They are going to be in the same range, in other words close and possibly the same if the judges are using the same system. If you have different systems, with different categories, more or less judges in one place or another, I'd agree, but it was not the case, so they are comparable because the adjudicators with the same training and the same system gave the scores. You can argue all you want about place, time, performance venue, etc, but it comes back to the same thing. It can be compared. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 17 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said: You don't see the Gaines' drill (apparently written by Weber, but consulted by Gaines)? From the bits that I have seen... SCV looks like what Gaines had going on in the Glory days of the Cavaliers for the better part of the 2000's... only turned up to 11. It's awesome stuff. Kaleidoscopic, symmetric, block patterns, cyclic (obviously)... It's all in there. Odd, I saw some bits of Gaines influence, but it looked like a very traditional Weber drill to me. He's always been such an incredible drill writer, I love his very unique and stand-out style Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Cappybara said: Odd, I saw some bits of Gaines influence, but it looked like a very traditional Weber drill to me. He's always been such an incredible drill writer, I love his very unique and stand-out style Part of my view may be that I don't know Weber as well as you might. I just see the change and influence in Gaines in contrast to SCV years past. Edited July 9, 2017 by cfirwin3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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