A Reprieve on A&E (Maybe?)

[drumcorpsfever]

6 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

all stuff pointed out here before the vote in 2003

 

Perhaps, but the difference now is having the on-field experience.   Having the practical experience now will provide for a better evaluation and go-forward plan if needed.

 

8 hours ago, Stu said:

A winning director GH spoke very highly of progressive designs; but as a seventh or eighth place director he now speaks out against those other corps who are winning with their progressive designs.  Anyway, here are my responses to your 10 comments:

1) Electronics have gone in a direction that may not have been anticipated or intended;

> Maybe; but the way BD and SCV have intended to use them in 2017 is competitively highly successful.

 

2) Use of electronics, though legal and creative, may lead the activity to a place they may not want to go;

> They may lead where Hop does not want to go, but I am pretty sure both Heimbecker and Frost are rather happy at the moment.

 

3) Creating artificial sounds for voices already in the mix (doubling-tripeling up brass for example) warrants further discussion;

> Discussion is always good. But again it is someone who is getting competitively whacked that is speaking out.

 

4) Suggests that, perhaps, electroncis may be better suited for creating voices outside of the field instrumentation - such as woodwinds, etc.;

> Placing limitations on technology already legal will be a hard sell to those winning with it the way it is now without limitations.

 

5) Concern for the spectators who have to sit near speakers;

> Welcome to every dang rock concert ever produced since amps were invented; and by the way nobody forces people to buy tickets near the stacks at any concert.

 

6) Raises issues of stadium walls/environmental aspects having impact on electronic equipment, reverb, projection, sound quality;

> Which can all be addressed in the quality of the mix.

 

7) The rapid proliferation of electronics over a very short period of time - good time to assess the current state of affairs;

> Again, discussion is always a good thing; but remember some corps are very happy with how things are going (the winners)

 

8) Impact of sound equipment, the use of sound engineers versus apprentices;

> Already addressed many times, and whether we like it or not, already shot down for rescinding either aspect.

 

9) Props, props, props - impact of logistics, those tasked with prop responsibilities and impact of the student experience;

> Win with props love the props; lose with props hate the props.

 

10) The implication that the horse is already out of the gate.  It's too late to reign it back in anytime soon.   However, even with the topic raised at the Januals, it probably won't be until 2019 before any real change can be made.

> You can turn a cucumber into a pickle, but try turning a pickle into a cucumber.  Cannot be done.  The only way to rectify it is to throw away the pickle and buy a different cucumber.

 

For the record, I am not one of the those who believe electronics is a bad thing.  It's the way it's used is what counts. If used well - good.  In not - not so good.  Electronics is like anything else that is presented on the field of competition.  I actually love SCV's show this year.   They are very creative in micing their 12 feature brass players.   As a fan, I get to enjoy some pretty incredible sounds and mixes that would not be possible without electronics.   But, I also can understand why, for some, it may not be their cup of tea.

Also, if you think about it, some talk of electronics as though we're already there in terms of utilization.   I believe that DCi has only now begun tapping into electronics as an effective tool.    I don't think it's time to turn the dial back.  Rather, continue to give the corps free reign in using it as they see fit.  They'll figure it out and we'll all benefit by it.   

As for props, they should be here to stay as well.  It can be an arms race in spending.  And logistics can be an issue too.  I know it's hard for some corps to keep up with the Jones's, but squelching the activity is not the way to go either.

But, further discussion is warranted. It is time to assess the issue, as all other relative issues should be discussed.  It's how you learn and how you move the acitivity forward. 

[Stu]

2 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Yes.

Let me see if I understand you correctly.  If the Cadets musical design-team was propelling the Cadets into an undefeated season with an unprecedented number of championships about to take place, with the designs of his musical staff topping both GE and Music Analysis at every show, you believe that GH would go public and undermine and undercut his design staff by knocking their designs which are winning? Really? You think he would throw his design staff under the bus while he and his corps are about to go undefeated?

Edited August 10, 2017 by Stu

[MikeRapp]

I am with Jeff, I don't think amplification and/or digital effects are a bad thing. The Blue Knights snare solo is the perfect example. That is legit high level center snare playing, with a very cool digital effect. The Bluecoats pitch bend is another. The repeating loop in Kinetic Noise is another. All very slick, very interesting. And the kids love it, and no doubt there will be band directors who replicate it successfully.

What I don't like is a soloist playing far left, with maxed out amps blasting away far right. What is the point of that? There were times in Nashville when I literally couldn't find the soloists on the field by their natural audio projection. Sadly, Blue Knights were the only corps that used the audio based on the position of the players to convey a message. I mean can you imagine Frameworks being played today, with the amplification we now have? 

Corps may well say, it cheats people who aren't sitting in the first 20 rows. But I was in the first 20 rows and I felt like I shouldn't have been. Not the way it should be, and I doubt any corps director will disagree with this.

[denverjohn]

9 hours ago, TRacer said:

But...but...HockeyDad...look at his hair in the video...it is magnificent! No one channels Sir Richard Branson cool as he does, nor can anyone top his "Lobo the Intergalactic Bounty Hunter from Justice League: Unlimited" attitude with that designer beard. Give him some credit-- duuude! 

 

You know I'm pulling your leg; I agree with your post! 

Tyrion Lanister Hopkins always pays his debts.

[drumcorpsfever]

Also, shout out form MikeRapp's comments - LOVE THE SNARE SOLO IN BLUE KNIGHTS!  What a cool effect this is!  They've created a voice for the snare drum that is incredible.   

That's a perfect example of why you don't regulate something that still is being developed.   Reward good uses of electronics, while not crediting things that don't work.    That's the basics of scoring and is why they adjudicate the performances.

[Stu]

2 hours ago, Ghost said:

Some on DCP are concerned about the higher placing corps using mic's to enhance their sound.   And many appreciate the smaller budgeted corps just the way they are.  They're working hard, giving the mm a great experience, while knowing they will be losing some to bigger corps.  The majority of fans might just want the brass lines to provide their sound without a steroid boost.  That''s an equal playing field.

Here is the level playing field:

WC is the big kids deep end side of the pool with the high dive. You are invited to join provided that you are skilled enough to dive and swim without drowning just like us big kids. But if you struggle and request us to shut down that high dive and raise the bottom of the pool in order to level the playing field for ya, well, us big kids will rightfully and correctly say, "Do not punish us because you can't do this without drowning, so go back to your wading pool ya little babies!"

[Stu]

2 hours ago, waliman4444 said:

i don't know if this has ever been discussed, so forgive me if it has..Can DCI  purchase a sound system that corps can use (or not) so as to establish an equal playing field for all corps..it would seem that a consistent(and reliable) electronics set up would eliminate the variables that have been discussed ad nauseum and eliminate the competitive edge that the wealthier corps have..it sounds more simplistic than it probably is but Pioneer would at least have the access to electronics as does BD...how they're used would still be the creative prerogative of the corps..just a thought!

Welcome to the jungle!!! What you suggest would work in a small county fair talent show, but the exteteme demands at the level of WC DCI would forbid this type of generic sharing of community equipment.

[Jeff Ream]

10 hours ago, Stu said:

True in that hs band kids have marching shows with these elements. But most kids are not in hs band, and most kids wheter in hs band or not go to the commercial rock/pop concerts not their hs band concerts. And DCI is seeking a way to market to most kids in order to expand the DCI fan and performer base.

most kids will never be in band.

 

lets be realistic here, this pie in the sky hopes that drum corps will suddenly become this monster universally loved by billions activity is never going to happen. to 95% of the world, we are band nerds. we're the stuff on the field at football games when we get up at halftime to go to the bathroom and get more nachos.They could add sharks with frickin laser beams and we'd still just be band nerds.

 

and DCI know this. DCI is marketing to the kids in band now. They aren't trying to reach the kid sitting at home playing Xbox or the kid trying to be a linebacker. They are going for the kids in band now.

[Jeff Ream]

7 hours ago, Stu said:

The inherent problem, though, cannot be fixed in DCI because the competition of moving corps on and off the field is so faced paced.  Rock concerts do very well with amplification in stadium venues; however their sound engineers take hours prior to the concert to go through multiple sound checks in order to get the acoustical mix correct.  The problem in DCI is lack of any time 'at all' during amplification set-up to do any meaningful sound checks.  Corps are lucky to even get stuff hooked up, let alone do a brief sound check, without getting a timing penalty. Thus in DCI we end up with the goo, the shrill, the weird mix, the boomy, the feedback, ad infinitum.

yet many corps keep a bible of sorts on the venues across the tour. I've seen Bluecoats book and the sheer volume of notes per stadium is staggering. I mean channel by channel notes. And it';s why they rarely have issues.

 

the other problem still is largely with the judging community. They are afraid to make that statement that shows the balance issues are real 

[Jeff Ream]

5 hours ago, waliman4444 said:

i don't know if this has ever been discussed, so forgive me if it has..Can DCI  purchase a sound system that corps can use (or not) so as to establish an equal playing field for all corps..it would seem that a consistent(and reliable) electronics set up would eliminate the variables that have been discussed ad nauseum and eliminate the competitive edge that the wealthier corps have..it sounds more simplistic than it probably is but Pioneer would at least have the access to electronics as does BD...how they're used would still be the creative prerogative of the corps..just a thought!

not all systems are compatible. Then you have sponsorship issues.