Terri Schehr

2017 DCA Prelims Discussion

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2 minutes ago, BigW said:

Startups are not easy, Jim. They never have been in DCA or DCI in general. Most don't really make it for various reasons. Usually, its because of a lack of a solid, sustainable business plan. You want, I can bemoan the loss of an awful lot of corps I've seen and enjoyed over the past 40 years. I can start with corps from Quebec if you want and go from there.

Trust me I get it BigW I haven't just stumbled into the activity. The Class A division has been good for organizations who don't have the talent, numbers or just having a down season and decide not to complete in Open and go Class A. Makes since, it keeps the organization going and it's better to get a pay check for making Finals in Class A then being 11th in Open and leaving with no cash in hand. Anyway it is what it is. 

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Dumb question here, perhaps....

But how is the revenue divided up?  I've heard of the "share points" thing but I'm not quite sure how that works. Might be a CIA-protected state secret, I have no idea.  LOL.

Do Open Class corps get priority, even if they miss finals, compared to Class A corps who make their finals? 

Is there a "graded" payout... meaning higher-finishing corps get a larger share, then so on and so forth down the line?  Or is it an even split?

Again... not trying to stir the pot here, or start an "us vs. them" wrestling match, or risk a visit to my house by guys in black suits threatening to kill my cat.  :tongue: I simply don't know how this all works in DCA. 

I've heard there might be advantages to being in Open compared to Class A...which might... emphasis on "might"... explain why some Open corps have not dropped down over the years, even for a season or two...  but again, I have no firm idea if this is the case, or not.

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35 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:

As "outsiders", we've been donors to a class A corps for several years and we'll be in the stadium at 2pm Saturday watching everyone perform. 

I'm sorry, I phrased that poorly and didn't mean to offend. Thank you for supporting small corps, both financially and in person. Very often it feels like there are not many who do appreciate us, which is why, to me at least, having an arena with meaningful results, where we can push each other to perform and to grow, is so very important.

42 minutes ago, Jim Schehr said:

Now list the Class A corps that are gone BigW. My guess maybe 20 or more. 

Of course there are many small corps that don't last; losing a key group of members or source of funding can quickly sink small operations like that, especially when so many are traveling so far to participate. I can't see how eliminating Class A would help that though, I don't see it doing anything but discouraging groups from showing up in the first place. And open class corps aren't immune, several perennial finalists have folded in that time as well.

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I don't know about all corps, but the ones that I am familiar with have had years where they have had 80 people show consistently  and had unbalanced corps lots of drum or guard and small horns. People have asked why not go class A, but to do that the corps would have to cut 15 people. I agree with them that letting 15 more people march and maybe finishing out of the top 10 and not having a finals appearance is better than cutting 15 people to make class A and having a good shot at winning class A or at least making a finals night appearance  I was surprised SKY  went open its first year back not making finals night hasn't killed their recruiting, I think they are getting better every year.   I think I read that corps that don't make finals get tickets to the show for their corps taken out of their sharepoints, so probably something is earned even if you don't make finals.

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1 hour ago, Fran Haring said:

I've heard there might be advantages to being in Open compared to Class A...which might... emphasis on "might"... explain why some Open corps have not dropped down over the years, even for a season or two...  but again, I have no firm idea if this is the case, or not.

As I understand it Share points. If you're one of the top ten highest scoring corps in finals you get like 4 share points and are guaranteed $1,800.00 minimum per show the following season, however you can negotiate more if the show sponsors are willing to pay more  

Every corps gets one share point per regular season show they attend including prelims.  A share is about $750.00.

So if you make finals you receive one share point for prelims and one share point for finals. However membership fees are about $750.00. So if you're not one of the top ten highest scoring corps yet make finals you walk away with two share points minus membership fees.

DCI usually will pay out about $800.00 fee for a DCI show appearance.

Depending on your corps membership fees, the number of MM's you have and the number of shows you schedule,  it might be better to stay Open Class instead of moving to Class A. It's a financial decision. 

Edited by Jim Schehr
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Share points are based on the net income of the championship itself, and thus varies (each year) on how much each point is worth.  During the regular season a DCA corps receives one share point for every sanctioned DCA show they attend....and a share point for hosting a show (if they do); thus a "home show" for a corps would be worth 2 share points.  A corps must attend the championships to receive any share points whatsoever; season earned, championship earned and/or hosting show corps earned.  No championship attendance, no share points.

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21 hours ago, Kamarag said:

 

 

Agreed. All of which begs the question, "Why have an A Class at all?"

DCI has some clear definitions when it comes to the purpose of it's Open Class, as do the various marching band circuits. The only definition I can see with DCA is simply numbers. Which again, leads us to the same question.

 

FWIW, I have nothing against DCA having an A class, and nothing against A class corps. I'm just having trouble seeing the benefit beyond simply rewarding corps for being small (which may indeed be the reason).

well...i'll use this for an example. Way back in the day before you were around TOB, size mattered....smaller bands rarely scored as high as bigger bands. Size can affect perception. it was once said "it's far easier to find faults when you have 50 kids as opposed to 200".

 

So while it's the same sheets, being ranked and rated against similar sized corps creates a sense of fairness, that they won't get buried because they are smaller. and, it encouraged growth in DCA

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18 hours ago, Jim Schehr said:

Trust me I get it BigW I haven't just stumbled into the activity. The Class A division has been good for organizations who don't have the talent, numbers or just having a down season and decide not to complete in Open and go Class A. Makes since, it keeps the organization going and it's better to get a pay check for making Finals in Class A then being 11th in Open and leaving with no cash in hand. Anyway it is what it is. 

agreed. while usually critical of DCA for a variety of reasons, this is one good one they made. yes it's not as large as a few years ago...geography is an issue and yes people will bemoan no shows being held here , there, wherever, finals doesnt leave the NE etc...i'll use my reply to that when those issues are raised.

 

But when DCA launched A class in I think 97 or 98, it was a huge help. CV started there if I recall, as did Fusion, Gold, White Sabers...I'm sure I'm missing some. One of the stated goals I remember hearing at the time was it gave smaller corps a place to perform against like corps, and hopefully move up into Open Class.

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18 hours ago, Fran Haring said:

Dumb question here, perhaps....

But how is the revenue divided up?  I've heard of the "share points" thing but I'm not quite sure how that works. Might be a CIA-protected state secret, I have no idea.  LOL.

Do Open Class corps get priority, even if they miss finals, compared to Class A corps who make their finals? 

Is there a "graded" payout... meaning higher-finishing corps get a larger share, then so on and so forth down the line?  Or is it an even split?

Again... not trying to stir the pot here, or start an "us vs. them" wrestling match, or risk a visit to my house by guys in black suits threatening to kill my cat.  :tongue: I simply don't know how this all works in DCA. 

I've heard there might be advantages to being in Open compared to Class A...which might... emphasis on "might"... explain why some Open corps have not dropped down over the years, even for a season or two...  but again, I have no firm idea if this is the case, or not.

if we tell you, you won't be able to watch college football ever again.

 

or drum corps

 

or golf

 

 

:whistle:

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20 hours ago, Spandy said:

Maybe it's not as apparent to outsiders, but for us small corps having Class A is hugely important.

I hear that.

For one thing, it's given any number of corps a chance to perform at Finals on Sunday.  A chance they would not otherwise have, if grouped with the Open corps. I agree with Spandy... In this day and age of increasingly higher travel budgets, I wonder how many corps would not make the trip if they knew they had no chance at being more than a "one and done."

I know there have been times when Class A corps have outscored Open corps at prelims...and a few occasions when the A corps have scored well enough to place in the top 10 overall for voting membership... but, on average, that top 10 score (Open finalist-range placement)  hasn't happened much, and usually only for the top one or two A corps. 

Edited by Fran Haring
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