BRASSO Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Slingerland said: It'd be intellectually dishonest not to acknowledge that their rise from 12th to 5th in two seasons was accomplished at least in part by firing their old design staff and hiring established design and instructional talent from Crown and Cadets. The current staff wasn't developed in-house. Nothing wrong with bringing in big guns, but it is what it is. Except that the reply above was the comparison between what Star of Indiana did and what Boston Crusaders have recently done. As if they were simiilar, but they are far from similar in most respects. Context is everything, Slingerland. Star of Indiana started out with the 2nd richest person in Indiana in 1984. ( Bill Cook.. multimilliionaire ) who had a Son that marched Star, and who looked at what it would take to quickly move a Star of Indiana up the ranks quickly in DCI. Star was funded with principally his money, and the Corps never started in Open Class. They started in World Class, and shot up the ranks quickly and almost immediately with their well funded Corps right from the outset. Cook brought in top national staff from other Corps almost from the beginnings of their Corps there in the mid 80's. Boston Crusaders however, had no principal revenue source. They had been up and down for years since the 1940's, even into their bankruptcy years.. almost folded on a number of occasions. A few years back, 2010, the Mgt changed hands, and they put in a 10 year plan to raise more money, seek out multiple and diverse revenue streams, and restructure their organization from top to bottom. It took a fews years of even moving down in placement, in order to position themselves to raise the money they would need to be more competitive long term. There was no sugar daddy here that fronted most of the the money to improve things from top to bottom, and right from the getgo.. When staff at other Corps wanted more artistic freedom, more money, and/ or just a change of scenery or fresher challenges in 2016, Boston financially now was able to take advantage of staff looking to make a change. Nothing new under the sun with this, as dozens and dozens of staffers and marchers change Corps each and EVERY season in DCI and have done so for decades in DCI. Corps at the top do not develop marcher talent " in house " either, lets be " intellectually honest " with that as well. Most top 12 Corps with feeder Corps don't get even a quarter of their marcher talent from their " in house " feeder Corps. Where do they get the bulk of marcher talent ? Not " in house " . its mostly from other DCI/ DCA Corps. The Star of Indiana AND the Boston Crusaders should be applauded for the manner in which they were able to attract staffers and marchers to their Corps. But they are not similar much at all in how it was done. Star of Indiana had a phenomenal run of 9 years ( from 1984-1993), and were exceptionally well funded throughout. It took Boston over 75 years to be organizationally strong and creative enough and to develop diverse and multiple revenue streams for themselves in order to finally take advantage of the staff/ marcher opportunities that presented themselves to the Corps in 2016.. Just sayin'. Edited August 18, 2018 by BRASSO 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluzes Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, BRASSO said: ( Bill Cook.. multimilliionaire ) who had a Son that marched Star, Here is what I heard back then. Bills son was in the Colts which may have been the Mason connection. He built Star for his son. However, the kid decided to stay in the Colts so Bill paid for the Colts buses that year, then eventually he marched Star. This may all be a myth does anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njthundrrd Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bluzes said: Here is what I heard back then. Bills son was in the Colts which may have been the Mason connection. Which was the Mason connection. This is pretty close. = ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfrontz Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, Bluzes said: Here is what I heard back then. Bills son was in the Colts which may have been the Mason connection. He built Star for his son. However, the kid decided to stay in the Colts so Bill paid for the Colts buses that year, then eventually he marched Star. This may all be a myth does anyone know? https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!msg/rec.arts.marching.drumcorps/CHQnHgE42vQ/qJHSjfyZDVwJ Star of Indiana - Recollections (by Bill Cook) [repost] STAR OF INDIANA, RECOLLECTIONS by Bill Cook and Jim Mason Seeing drum corps for the first time I first became aware of drum corps in 1979 when Carl, my son, wanted to watch the DCI Championship for a high school band project. I griped but he won out and so the TV was turned on to Birmingham. The corps that I remember most was the Bridgemen; to me they were humor, professionalism, talent, entertainment, all wrapped up in a yellow package. When the show ended at 1:00 a.m., I was hooked and the following summer Carl and I went to several shows--the most memorable was the championship at Whitewater. Phantom was incredible and I couldn't believe that 15 to 21 year olds were making such wonderful music. Carl never considered drum corps while in high school because he was a saxophone player, but during his second year in college he decided that he wanted to try out for the Colts. After a tryout, he didn't think that he could make it but was given a flugel horn, told to go home and learn how to play. By his own words, he couldn't play much his first year but by the second year, he could. The marching was a foreign language to him and he considered that he might be cut at anytime. He aged out in 1984 and stayed on as a staff instructor through 1986. Star becomes a reality After the DCI semi-finals in 1984, Bob Lendman and I were crossing a street in Atlanta when I asked him, "Carl just aged out of the Colts; what would you think about us starting a drum corps?" His answer was: "you're nuts!" I met Bob in the summer of 1981 when he appeared in Bloomington with a huge white and blue semi equipment truck, two sagging buses, and the "Blue Stars." Bob had parked this monstrosity on a sidewalk next to a fire plug and was having a conversation with a two off duty university policemen. Earlier that morning, I had received a phone call from the police chief telling me that some "drum" guy had parked his semi in a no parking zone. It seems that Bob had convinced the police that the truck belonged on the sidewalk and next to the fireplug but only after considerable talking. Suffice it to say, the truck remained there until the Blue Stars and Bob left two days later. Bob and Allison Lendman have deep roots in drum corps; their kids marched in Phantom Regiment and Bob later became Phantom's director. He had the fortune or misfortune of getting two back-to-back 2nds in the World Championships. To this day, he is sensitive to what happened. I still greet Bob with: "hey Bob, have you got a second?" He goes ballistic! But back to the story in Atlanta. My next question to him was "who would you pick as director?" He related the backgrounds of several Midwest directors but in the end said: "I would pick Jim Mason." So off we went to find him. Jim was standing by a Colts bus at the back of Grant field. After several minutes of pleasantries, I said to Jim, "would you consider being director of a new drum corps which would be based in Bloomington Indiana?" His answer was, "let me think about it and talk with Theresa (his wife.)" On the following Monday, I called and set up an appointment for the two of them to visit Bloomington. After seeing my commitment to the project, Jim said: "You now have yourself a corps director; I'll take the job." He didn't ask about salary or any details before he said yes.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluzes Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 16 minutes ago, njthundrrd said: Which was the Mason connection. This is pretty close. = ) Didn't he go from the Colts to Star. This is all from memory have not looked anything up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barneveld Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 28 minutes ago, BRASSO said: Except that the reply above was the comparison between what Star of Indiana did and what Boston Crusaders have recently done. As if they were simiilar, but they are far from similar in most respects. Context is everything, Slingerland. Star of Indiana started out with the 2nd richest Man in Indiana in 1984. ( Bill Cook.. multimilliionaire ) who had a Son that marched Star, and who looked at what it would take to quickly move a Star of Indiana up the ranks quickly in DCI. Star was funded with principally his money, and the Corps never started in Open Class. They started in World Class, and shot up the ranks quickly and almost immediately with their well funded Corps right from the outset. Cook brought in top national staff from other Corps almost from the beginnings of their Corps there in the mid 80's. Boston Crusaders however, had no principal revenue source. They had been up and down for years since the 1940's, even into their bankruptcy years.. almost folded on a number of occasions. A few years back, 2010, the Mgt changed hands, and they put in a 10 year plan to raise more money, seek out multiple and diverse revenue streams, and restructure their organization from top to bottom. It took a fews years of even moving down in placement, in order to position themselves to raise the money they would need to be more competitive long term. There was no sugar daddy here that fronted most of the the money to improve things from top to bottom, and right from the getgo.. When staff at other Corps wanted more artistic freedom, more money, and/ or just a change of scenery or fresher challenges in 2016, Boston financially now was able to take advantage of staff looking to make a change. Nothing new under the sun with this, as dozens and dozens of staffers and marchers change Corps each and EVERY season and have done so for decades. Corps at the top do not develop marcher talent " in house " either, lets be " intellectually honest " with that as well. Most top 12 Corps with feeder Corps don't get even a quarter of their marcher talent from their " in house " feeder Corps, and I'd imagine you are aware of this too, The Star of Indiana AND the Boston Crusaders should be applauded for the manner in which they were able to attract staffers and marchers to their Corps. But they are not similar at all in how it was done. Star of Indiana had a phenomenal run of 9 years ( from 1984-1993), and were exceptionally well funded throughout. It took Boston over 75 years to be organizationally strong and creative enough and to develop diverse revenue streams for themselves in order to finally take advantage of the opportunities that presented themselves to the Corps in 2016.. Just sayin'. Could you please explain/elaborate what you mean in the part I highlighted? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 (edited) 34 minutes ago, BRASSO said: Except that the reply above was the comparison between what Star of Indiana did and what Boston Crusaders have recently done. As if they were simiilar, but they are far from similar in most respects. No offense, and this isn't a criticism of Boston's achievements in the last two seasons, but they have some committed Board members who were willing to pony up some money in summer 2016 to buy an improved staff. Nothing wrong with it, but it's not accurate to claim that their improvement, in very material ways, isn't related to this hiring of established staff members from other corps. They could, and they did, and good on 'em. Edited August 18, 2018 by Slingerland 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njthundrrd Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bluzes said: Didn't he go from the Colts to Star. This is all from memory have not looked anything up He did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 Incidentally, the notion that inexperienced, young people can't write great shows. great music that'll place well/ be entertaining is something we really don't know... one way or the other, imo. Most Corps mgt do tend to become risk avoidance with the risks they are willing to take on with new, young, unproven show designers, music arrangers, visual designers, program coordinators. I suppose thats understandable when we are now talking million dollar revenue budgets on the line with these show creations. On the other hand, if a Corps is not in the Top 12-14 or so, why not take a chance ? There are examples of young, unproven, people doing amazing placement successful shows in the past in DCI. So its not like we don't have examples of where its been done successfully in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, BRASSO said: Incidentally, the notion that inexperienced, young people can't write great shows. great music that'll place well/ be entertaining is something we really don't know... one way or the other, imo. Most Corps mgt do tend to become risk avoidance with the risks they are willing to take on with new, young, unproven show designers, music arrangers, visual designers, program coordinators. I suppose thats understandable when we are now talking million dollar revenue budgets on the line with these show creations. On the other hand, if a Corps is not in the Top 12-14 or so, why not take a chance ? There are examples of young, unproven, people doing amazing placement successful shows in the past in DCI. So its not like we don't have examples of where its been done successfully in the past. Regarding your first sentence, my memories instantly turned to Michael Klesch being given the reins at 23 or 24 when the Cadets had no arranger and look at what resulted. On the visual side, I think of George Bonfiglio's risk and reward in letting young George Zingali write 27th's memorable drills. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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