N.E. Brigand Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Just now, Jeff Ream said: works in politics LOL I'm not so sure. It can enthuse supporters, but it can't win over undecideds. In my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said: I'm not so sure. It can enthuse supporters, but it can't win over undecideds. In my opinion. i was trying to bring some levity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Just now, Jeff Ream said: i was trying to bring some levity Sorry. Thank you for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 38 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said: What if a judge can't tell who's better because that would require being closer to the battery? More ties? That's an assumption that judges presume equality with less personal coverage. Seems like a jump in logic to me. Seems more logical to go after equity of score (meaning that the best corps could get a lower placement due to coverage). But, the problem with that is that everyone knows the regulation, so design teams have the responsibility of staging their features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 44 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said: Thank you. So it's your opinion (which may be correct; I don't know) that in at least some corps' shows, it's been too dangerous to have judges on the field for about 35 years. It's my opinion that when a FEW corps were doing a LITTLE bit of the type of section integration and collapsing drill that is common today, judges could deal with it by staying away at the few known moments. Judges could easily know that the Cavaliers do that 1 crazy kaleidoscopic thing at that one point in their presentation and that's really all they needed to look out for the entire evening... get the heck out of Dodge before that, and nobody gets hurt. Today... The 14th place corps is doing that exact same stuff several times in their performance, and it could be different tomorrow. Keep in mind what the rule does. It essentially puts the judge in a 180 dimension where there is no risk of getting blindsided by movement. This can be achieved from any perimeter perspective... it's just simpler and more reliable to designate the front sideline as the safe space. They don't want judges (who are supposed to be focused on one thing) surrounded by performs. The people that have to do it negotiated it and it was approved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 1 hour ago, cfirwin3 said: It's my opinion that when a FEW corps were doing a LITTLE bit of the type of section integration and collapsing drill that is common today, judges could deal with it by staying away at the few known moments. Judges could easily know that the Cavaliers do that 1 crazy kaleidoscopic thing at that one point in their presentation and that's really all they needed to look out for the entire evening... get the heck out of Dodge before that, and nobody gets hurt. Today... The 14th place corps is doing that exact same stuff several times in their performance, and it could be different tomorrow. Keep in mind what the rule does. It essentially puts the judge in a 180 dimension where there is no risk of getting blindsided by movement. This can be achieved from any perimeter perspective... it's just simpler and more reliable to designate the front sideline as the safe space. They don't want judges (who are supposed to be focused on one thing) surrounded by performs. The people that have to do it negotiated it and it was approved. actually there is risk. If you wander out in the 2 yard radius and are looking left, and performers start coming into the pit zone from the right and you don't see/hear them coming...there's risk. Saw it happen on each night this past weekend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karuna Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said: actually there is risk. If you wander out in the 2 yard radius and are looking left, and performers start coming into the pit zone from the right and you don't see/hear them coming...there's risk. Saw it happen on each night this past weekend. If there's risk only 2 yard in (with a "safe zone" just a few steps back to the track) what is the risk of going inside drill? You're in serious denial. You want to blame the entire rule change on one guy when in fact he's just the proverbial straw. There has always been too much unnecessary risk from percussion judges. The fact that most of the time it's been avoided (most often by too small margins or by performers actively avoiding judges) doesn't mean the risk wasn't there. So in balancing the risk to performers vs reward (basically creating hype tapes for percussionists) there was really no other decision to make. Adjudication should not present any risk at all to performers.If you want to bring up the "returns snare drum incident", certainly judges should be able act to protect member safety. Leaving a snare drum sitting on the field was certainly unsafe. So you've got that situation covered. Brass, guard, and VP judges could all provide far more detail if they were running around the field as well. But that detail is not really necessary to accurately rank and rate. You can't justify a judge putting any member at any risk. 😖 Edited July 2, 2019 by karuna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 I'm curious: this issue really only became the subject of much discussion here in the past two years or so. Had it been the subject of concern among designers, staff, and judges for some time before that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said: I'm curious: this issue really only became the subject of much discussion here in the past two years or so. Had it been the subject of concern among designers, staff, and judges for some time before that? Good question. I know nothing about whether percussion is best judged from up close or from upstairs. All I know is, I'm amazed at how well so many of the field percussion judges have managed to not make themselves part of the show. Meaning, they've stayed out of the way as best as possible. LOL. Marty Griffin, Neil Sylvia, among many others... those are just the two I know the best. A testament, IMO, to the preparation those judges put in. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricS Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 6 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said: Several years ago, BOA put limitations on prop height. hopefully they would ban them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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