scheherazadesghost Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, skevinp said: 2 hours ago, MidWAmericanArts said: you hear the crowd lose their mind at every show when that moment comes up. I don’t want to see moments like that get rewarded. I do Same. These reactions are crucial to the longevity and sustainability of the activity. Way more than other more subtle elements of GE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, skevinp said: I do I kinda do as well. To me, the worst thing DCI can do is become a technical exposition. If that’s what is rewarded, no one but former corps MMs will care. I realize there is a down side. I don’t want a bunch of circus acts. The key is to accurately define and reward GE. Then shows that take risks and engage audiences will score well, attract funding, and attract the best educators and members. Innovation is the crucial aspect of the survival of DCI. Without innovation the activity becomes marching band. And I loved marching band. But I ain’t going to pay $50 to watch marching band. Edited July 31, 2022 by MikeRapp 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 1 minute ago, MikeRapp said: I kinda do as well. To me, the worst thing DCI can do is become a technical exposition. If that’s what is rewarded, no one but former corps MMs will care. I realize there is a down side. I don’t want a bunch of circus acts. I get that concern. But the activity can't afford to gatekeep anymore. If corps put on "circus acts" and enough people are happy, more power to them. There are corps that will never do circus acts, at least not consistently. Their job is to hold down the legacy fort. Others, rightfully so, have legacies that give them more freedom to color outside of the lines. The excellent corps figure out how to do both. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said: I get that concern. But the activity can't afford to gatekeep anymore. If corps put on "circus acts" and enough people are happy, more power to them. There are corps that will never do circus acts, at least not consistently. Their job is to hold down the legacy fort. Others, rightfully so, have legacies that give them more freedom to color outside of the lines. The excellent corps figure out how to do both. First, I am so glad you are here. Second, the only practical way for corps to color outside the lines is if they are consistently and accurately rewarded on the sheets for doing so. DCI has to make sure both Boston and in this case Bluecoats are given equal shots at winning a gold medal. If dci picks a side it will become a self fulfilling prophecy. Which brings us full circle. Last night two GE judges said Bluecoats is a gold medal contender. Two said they will fight to get the bronze. This is a problem that needs to get fixed. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skevinp Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 People are talking about GE like performance makes no difference, like it is nothing more than the designers and can’t change night to night. I don’t claim to understand judging, but based on the explanations of people who do, That doesn’t seem to be the case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karuna Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 1 minute ago, skevinp said: People are talking about GE like performance makes no difference, like it is nothing more than the designers and can’t change night to night. I don’t claim to understand judging, but based on the explanations of people who do, That doesn’t seem to be the case. No credit for effect without execution. Winning designs can't win on their own. They need both execution AND showmanship (ie "selling it") from the members. So yeah GE definitely factors in execution. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, skevinp said: People are talking about GE like performance makes no difference, like it is nothing more than the designers and can’t change night to night. I don’t claim to understand judging, but based on the explanations of people who do, That doesn’t seem to be the case. That’s not the point though. Based on last night’s GE scores, what should Bluecoats do to change the show? No clue. Clearly four judges judged GE by two very different criteria. At a regional, two weeks from finals, that really should not happen. Edited July 31, 2022 by MikeRapp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skevinp Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 3 hours ago, MikeRapp said: Judging is subjective. It just is. But a half point difference between four GE judges, two on one end and two on the other—really shouldn’t happen. Maybe they are looking at different parts of a field that is 300 feet wide, or discerning different aspects or sources of a show being pumped through a zillion different speakers. Maybe some notice individual actions and others notice big forms at any given time. Maybe one hears the music more and another hears the narration more. If that is a concern for people, should they not also be concerned with field judges who base their scores on sampling wherever they happen to be at a given time? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, MikeRapp said: First, I am so glad you are here. Second, the only practical way for corps to color outside the lines is if they are consistently and accurately rewarded on the sheets for doing so. DCI has to make sure both Boston and in this case Bluecoats are given equal shots at winning a gold medal. If dci picks a side it will become a self fulfilling prophecy. Which brings us full circle. Last night two GE judges said Bluecoats is a gold medal contender. Two said they will fight to get the bronze. This is a problem that needs to get fixed. Thank you. I appreciate your sentiment. It sounds like you're saying that to color outside of the lines they have to be given credit for doing so. That means judges need the eyes to see it and judging systems to give credit.... which is not what coloring outside of the lines means. Coloring outside of the lines is saying screw the formula, I'm going for this wild idea over here and I don't care if I get credit for it. SC 03 is a testament to this kind of show. I say judges don't have the eyes to see or the systems to give credit because I know now that they are not qualified to see complex, phrased, and layered choreo in the hornline. If they can't see it, they can't give credit to it. Similarly with Crown, if there's no way to quantify the app's contribution for the show, Crown won't get credit. But it's a component they put time and energy into that has a great effect... The variance I'm seeing in GE scores indicates to me that SOME judges (call them rogue, or whatever) are seeing these aspects of shows and TRYING to reward them. Not necessarily a flaw. But I would appreciate further discussion and clarity on the disconnect between their decisions in this case, but more as a curiosity than anything else. I think SC's commitment to a theme from the beginning of the season and gradually letting it unfold is perfect for the show and the MMs and don't care if the judges figure that out or learn how to quantify it. I hope they don't either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, MikeRapp said: Based on last night’s GE scores, what should Bluecoats do to change the show? No clue. Clearly four judges judged GE by two very different criteria. At a regional, two weeks from finals, that really should not happen. If corps are making big changes for the judges this late in the game boooo, they're doing this wrong. Too many late season changes, in general, can affect morale and aren't worth it. Sometimes it's better for corps to sleep in the bed they made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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