PRomoter Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 22 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: funny thing tho....06 and 08 are two of the best story telling shows in DCI history, and the corps did quite well with them. Granted neither were prop fests, but truly Phantom took story telling to the next level I totally agree with this. Unfortunately they got in a rut of believing they could only win with a story. Last valiant attempt was Turandot, 3rd place. I miss the days when DCI used to be mainly just about a good book and… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weaklefthand4ever Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 11 hours ago, Sutasaurus said: Call me a Dino..I’ve answered to it before, yawn….but I still maintain the premise that “The music captures peoples’ hearts.” That’s not a bad thing. And I think that from an enjoyment perspective, I agree 100%. The balance has simply not yet been struck in a consistent manner is all. I think of of it almost like I think of interviewing trainers at this point. When I interview master trainers (we call them senior trainers,) they have to go through a 15 minute presentation via video (thank you global pandemic.) The basic expectation for being a master trainer is the same for everyone: You have to be good. #### good. You have to hit every point in adult education from movement with purpose to use of tools and resources, checkbacks, student proof of learning process etc etc etc. That's the bare minimum. I EXPECT that you hit a 90%+. The ones that make the cut show something even more special. They're innovative, they literally interview to the SCORECARD we use because everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) knows what the scorecard has on it. It hasn't exactly been a well guarded secret over the last decade. I'll give you an example. In the world of adult learning we often refer to the concept of building of a house. You have a foundation that supports the general purpose, walls that hold in the rules of specific actions (scope of support,) rooms that house individual processes and a roof that guards and protects any legal specifics of your client. I had a trainer (I mentored her) who explained the theory of building a house while having us all make individual lasagna's (this is when we were still on site.) At the end of the lesson, every panel member was able to recreate the steps in the exact order, relate back to a story / series of recognizable steps AND we each had a lasagna to take home that night and make 🙂 Great is great. Better than great is a story...sometimes with props...like lasagna. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 I don't get all the Monday morning quarterback whining after this last year. Look, obviously Regiment is making changes and they seem to be working just fine. Seriously, what was NOT to like about this last show? All they have to do is keep building and putting out great shows. That means GOOD PR style music. I can't wait to see what PR does this next year building on this last year. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weaklefthand4ever Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, Mello Dude said: I don't get all the Monday morning quarterback whining after this last year. Look, obviously Regiment is making changes and they seem to be working just fine. Seriously, what was NOT to like about this last show? All they have to do is keep building and putting out great shows. That means GOOD PR style music. I can't wait to see what PR does this next year building on this last year. I agree and I loved their show. I think the discussion we are having here is also completely valid. If we are discussing moving up in placement, then some will have a more "how do we get there sooner rather than later" approach. I am a more "organic growth" kinda cat as well. But the discussion is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weaklefthand4ever Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 11 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: funny thing tho....06 and 08 are two of the best story telling shows in DCI history, and the corps did quite well with them. Granted neither were prop fests, but truly Phantom took story telling to the next level And I would agree. But, do you think Faust and Spartacus would hold up as 1st and 2nd place shows against the 2014 and onward top 3 shows? Music and drill wise I would say yes. Effect wise...I don't really know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRomoter Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 45 minutes ago, Weaklefthand4ever said: And I would agree. But, do you think Faust and Spartacus would hold up as 1st and 2nd place shows against the 2014 and onward top 3 shows? Music and drill wise I would say yes. Effect wise...I don't really know. People freaking lost their minds the last 1:30 of Spartacus. Can’t see that being any different today. It was the audience participation that pushed them across the finish line. It’s hard to compare a show in 2022 with one from 2008, but I think it might be just as effective now. I think it would be unfair not to mention how much the crowd wanted PR to take the gold. That definitely had an effect for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOC Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 51 minutes ago, PRomoter said: That definitely had an effect for sure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketman Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 I have no 'inside' knowledge, I just know what is rewarded and that is NOT what they have offered for going on a decade now. Of course, reward in this case being a show capable of competing for a championship. Yes, the activity is a competition, there are winners and losers, as an alum, I'm a little tired of not seeing them battle for a title. It is disheartening to see corps such as Bluecoats setting the standard and advancing the activity. Now, don't take this for liking everything they do, but I have to admit they push the envelope. Something PR hasn't done in an awfully long time. Dare I say 1993? A strong, competitive, PR is good for the activity, or are we satisfied with them being the Pioneer of the top 12. The corps everyone likes but doesn't consider a threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 12 hours ago, Weaklefthand4ever said: And I would agree. But, do you think Faust and Spartacus would hold up as 1st and 2nd place shows against the 2014 and onward top 3 shows? Music and drill wise I would say yes. Effect wise...I don't really know. no they wouldn't hold up. the thing is the game changed......and Phantom tried to keep going the same way. remember, effect is 40% of the score..and the visual world changed far more than the music world. how many mocked BD for "staging over "drill" back then.....and now staging is more important than drill as we older fans like to think of it. When you look at all of the BD victories, visual and visual effect does it almost every year but 14. Even in 08 Phantom 3rd in the visual captions average...4th in ensemble and guard ( torched!) and GE visual average 2nd....2nd for one judge and 3rd for the other. Yeah BD won brass, but the 2 firsts in GE music and long with the huge spread in the music captions average thanks to BE 4th in ensemble and 5th in percussion did the trick. granted i thought Phantom won by more and haven't watched or listened to BD 08 since i got the cd's and dvd's, but even then you could see the trends building 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 8 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: no they wouldn't hold up. the thing is the game changed......and Phantom tried to keep going the same way. remember, effect is 40% of the score..and the visual world changed far more than the music world. how many mocked BD for "staging over "drill" back then.....and now staging is more important than drill as we older fans like to think of it. When you look at all of the BD victories, visual and visual effect does it almost every year but 14. Even in 08 Phantom 3rd in the visual captions average...4th in ensemble and guard ( torched!) and GE visual average 2nd....2nd for one judge and 3rd for the other. Yeah BD won brass, but the 2 firsts in GE music and long with the huge spread in the music captions average thanks to BE 4th in ensemble and 5th in percussion did the trick. granted i thought Phantom won by more and haven't watched or listened to BD 08 since i got the cd's and dvd's, but even then you could see the trends building Even better when marchng AND staging are put together with a full musical thought (playing). Can be quite effective and quite a bit of demand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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