Madison Scouts 2023

[Gantang]

6 hours ago, skevinp said:

If you make an honest effort to describe their identity without using gender-based terms, you might end up with a solid, accurate list of adjectives that we should now understand are not exclusive to males.  

Define "who" the 2023 version of the Corps with Madison in Its Name is. What is their identity?

This has nothing to do with the addition of girls; it's more akin to a merger and having to create an identity. Band of Brothers doesn't work. Marching Brotherhood doesn't work.

When the Imperials of St. Pat's and Thunderbolts merged, they needed to create a brand and identity. The Thing took the field in 1973 and was rebranded the Pioneer the next year. Pioneer certainly had its unique identity. When Bobby Hoffman went to the St. Andrews Bridgemen, he ditched the traditional uniform and outfitted the corps in their iconic uniform. The way they marched, left the field and fell to the ground after the final note are all part of their unique identity. 

[Gantang]

4 hours ago, Vuitton said:

I don’t think the Scouts need a masculine identity to be the Scouts. While I agree the masculine identity is gone, they can still keep the core essential Madison identity - great shows that are well designed and entertaining. We aren’t getting any of that with this administration.

 

I agree with you. Masculinity was just a part of the Madison brand. The show designs Post-Mason have been worthy of the placements Madison has witnessed. I DO NOT want them to try to emulate the swagger of the early corps. I want them to be a corps that fits in the current landscape of society and drum corps. 

As for bad-arse females in drum corps...100% agree. The first corps I marched with had a guard that scared the crap out of people! That was back when flag pikes were aluminum and had to be straightened after every show. The girls I dated who marched have some of the strongest minds of all of my friends. That came from marching or was enhanced by marching...chicken/egg??

[C.Holland]

4 hours ago, Vuitton said:

Chris H is an avid support of Chris K and the leadership at Madison. I would take what he says with the smallest grain of salt.

What about Mason? Mason got the Scouts back into the top 8 in 2015 for the first time since 2005. I know he was not with Madison in 2015, but the foundations he laid paved the way to that 8th place finish. Mason had a proven track record of success. He was the best thing to happen to Madison in decades. If he were here and Chris K out, I have no doubt Madison would be a much for successful corps.

NOTHING is going to change at Madison until the Board and Chris are axed. But, that is never going to happen.

Ask yourself why board meetings are closed? It’s because it’s a fascist dictatorship and criticism ist verboten!

You dont pay attention if this is what you take away.  but hey... cherry pick what you want.  seams to be your talent.

Yes. I like CK. he's a good numbers guy and a revenue finder.  He's dug this corps out of the pits of extinction.  But i am still scrutinous of show design and education.  Always have been.   One part of the org is for operations and funding.  The other part is what you all continue to complain about on the field.  And I like J Rob...  however this isn't the first time I've been scrutinous of a show.   They start promising...  first season was a step in the right direction, then the next looked better, and then we now have an artistic component that's missing communication.  Which I too have stated many times, over many seasons..  when there's concern, and how they handle it. 

But i still believe you give a team a few seasons to see what they can do and if it doesnt work, then replace them.    To me its a 3 year process.  First year is putting in all the systems and bring a new look.  second year is recruiting talent and pushing the envelope.  third year should be profit of the previous two.   

But it does go back to one part funds the machine and operates it,  and the other creates the artistic show on the field. (same as we do in professional theatre... one side brings money, the other brings arts and neither the two should influence the other) If the corps has money coming in and students well traveled, well fed, and well cared for, then admin has done their job correctly.  If the retention rate is above 50%, then admin has done their job correctly.   Competitive/artistic success is dependent on the design team and education staff.  This is a design driven era.  Read the sheets, there's more about what a performer is given to do than an actual assessment of performance.  And one score either holds the maximum number which can be achieved, or elevates then beyond what they're performing.  In fact the wording on sheets is so dependent on design that the student's "education" is superfluous in this era.  You dont want students that you have to teach fundamentals to, you want students ready to go out of the box, so that you can do nothing but teach the show (like we do on broadway).  The less time you spend teaching performance techniques and instead teaching show concepts the more success you have.  

[C.Holland]

20 minutes ago, Gantang said:

I agree with you. Masculinity was just a part of the Madison brand. The show designs Post-Mason have been worthy of the placements Madison has witnessed. I DO NOT want them to try to emulate the swagger of the early corps. I want them to be a corps that fits in the current landscape of society and drum corps. 

As for bad-arse females in drum corps...100% agree. The first corps I marched with had a guard that scared the crap out of people! That was back when flag pikes were aluminum and had to be straightened after every show. The girls I dated who marched have some of the strongest minds of all of my friends. That came from marching or was enhanced by marching...chicken/egg??

Bad ### performers are all gender.  Watch Cirque, Broadway, Blue Man Group (there's no gender requirements under the makeup), Nita Strauss, Candy Dulfer... the list is endless.  Bad assery doesnt have a gender, its a performance style. 

Show concepts and execution on the other hand... 
Installation 84 was missing full integration of the narrative.  it was a 75% show.   We never truly saw the corps and gallery merge.  Good charts, out of the box idea, not fully immersed.  

Between the lines was a pretty spot on show that is truly unfortunate it didn't put a score to it.  Should have used that in place of Installation or Sound Garden.

This show...  again a novel idea... without much supportive narrative.  I call this a 50% show.  Its got a fun name, its got some killer charts.  Its missing a catalyst and narrative string that drives everything else on the field.  

[skevinp]

2 hours ago, Mello Dude said:

That's pretty unfair.  People are allowed to post without cowering to gender censor.

That was not my point or my intention, nor would I have the authority to censor anyone even if I wanted to, which I don’t.  

I merely suggested a mental exercise that might help the poster challenge any gender assumptions that his position may have been based on.  

What adjectives would you use to describe Madison’s identity if gender-based assumptions were momentarily unavailable?

I don’t want to taint anyone else’s list, and I have to take my wife to the doctor in a minute, so I will just say “bad ###” is the first thing that comes to mind.  

Then when I ask myself whether bad ### is exclusively male, my answer is no, not at all.  

Edited August 8, 2023 by skevinp

[skevinp]

1 hour ago, Gantang said:

Define "who" the 2023 version of the Corps with Madison in Its Name is. What is their identity?

This has nothing to do with the addition of girls; it's more akin to a merger and having to create an identity. Band of Brothers doesn't work. Marching Brotherhood doesn't work.

When the Imperials of St. Pat's and Thunderbolts merged, they needed to create a brand and identity. The Thing took the field in 1973 and was rebranded the Pioneer the next year. Pioneer certainly had its unique identity. When Bobby Hoffman went to the St. Andrews Bridgemen, he ditched the traditional uniform and outfitted the corps in their iconic uniform. The way they marched, left the field and fell to the ground after the final note are all part of their unique identity. 

I could be wrong, but I always assumed the “brother” reference was more about being a family than having the same chromosomes.  

[wolfgang]

1 hour ago, C.Holland said:

This show...  again a novel idea... without much supportive narrative.  I call this a 50% show.  Its got a fun name, its got some killer charts.  Its missing a catalyst and narrative string that drives everything else on the field.  

If anyone has ever watched Chopped on the Food Network, what you described is what the judges would say is not a cohesive dish....

[1992AllOverAgain]

Center snare for BAC 2023, a girl, is tough as nails. My own instructor way back in the day came from the SCV snare line the year they won with Phantom of the Opera, and she obliterated our ##### into a championship battery when all was said and done. Both of them could have rocked an MS aussie harder than most dudes.

[Chief Guns]

3 minutes ago, 1992AllOverAgain said:

Center snare for BAC 2023, a girl, is tough as nails. My own instructor way back in the day came from the SCV snare line the year they won with Phantom of the Opera, and she obliterated our ##### into a championship battery when all was said and done. Both of them could have rocked an MS aussie harder than most dudes.

BD has two girls in the snare line this year. Think they had a female tenor last year. BDs center snare in 2013 was also a female. 

[bluecoats88]

2 hours ago, Gantang said:

Define "who" the 2023 version of the Corps with Madison in Its Name is. What is their identity?

This has nothing to do with the addition of girls; it's more akin to a merger and having to create an identity. Band of Brothers doesn't work. Marching Brotherhood doesn't work.

When the Imperials of St. Pat's and Thunderbolts merged, they needed to create a brand and identity. The Thing took the field in 1973 and was rebranded the Pioneer the next year. Pioneer certainly had its unique identity. When Bobby Hoffman went to the St. Andrews Bridgemen, he ditched the traditional uniform and outfitted the corps in their iconic uniform. The way they marched, left the field and fell to the ground after the final note are all part of their unique identity. 

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