Let's Talk About the Blue Devils...

[saxfreq1128]

3 hours ago, craiga said:

So, here is my view on our friends from Concord.   It is true that for many years, particularly in the first decade or so since 2000 they did in fact get away with murder in terms of the visual captions.  While corps like Crown and Cadets were marching unbelievably difficult and mind blowing drill, BD was still marching around follow the leader at a medium swing tempo and winning.   I'm not criticizing them.  Quite the contrary.  They have been unbelievably effective in convincing the judging community that even though they were presenting what was, in effect, early 80s visual design, because it was them, it was creditworthy....like spending nearly half a show sitting in folding chairs.

They have recently been forced to up their visual game including guard due to stiff competition.   They still however, have a finely tuned,  well earned artistic license that no other drum corps can possess, and yes, Crown,  BAC, and Bluecoats need to be a full point better to beat them by a tenth.

Are judges being paid off? Absolutely not.   Is it true that most judges marched or taught them at some point? Most likely, no.

But BD'S skillfully crafted artistic license is such that if they simply stood in their opening set and took a poop on the turf,  most judges would applaud and say "they're making a statement on one man's journey as an homage to Matisse.....".   In contrast, if BAC did the same thing, the reaction from some judges would be..."somebody get a shovel." 😀

okay this is incorrect but love you anyway craiga 🫡

[wilme861]

2 hours ago, MarimbaManiac said:

In my experience across discussions I've had over the last 30 years, good faith critiques of BD usually result in one of three responses:

1. Saying "you're just a hater who hates winners."
2. Attacking your ability to make determinations by tearing down your history, experience, or other personal attacks. 
3. Demanding a detailed minute by minute dissertation supporting your views that they can try and tear apart. 

If you run into any of these, it's because you've succeeded in triggering a BD fundamentalist. 

 

19 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said:

Of course it's subjective, most things are in this activity. Everything I've stated is my opinion (as has everyone else), one I've honed over 30 years as a performer, designer, composer, and highly trained musician. You're free to disagree obviously. 

Ironic…

[SNModdison]

I used to love BD, especially in the 90's. I auditioned for BD when I was 20. They were my first choice. I totally understand why people want to march their. Sadly, I have enjoyed very few of their shows in the last 20 years. 

Sigh. I hope all the members of every corps have a great season and enjoy performing their butts of for us! 

Edited July 27, 2023 by SNModdison

[MarimbaManiac]

3 minutes ago, wilme861 said:

 

Ironic…

Did you get your definition of Ironic from Alanis Morisette?

[Cappybara]

2 hours ago, MarimbaManiac said:

Uh, no. Up until recently I was very involved with the activity. 

To be completely fair, since 2000 I think they deserved to win in 2010, 2011 (which they didn't win btw), 2014, 2019, and 2022. 

Every other year there was a better designed, more exciting, or more interesting show on the field. 

Is “more exciting” and “more interesting” a part of the sheets? 

Thinking a show was better designed and therefore should’ve been given more credit than it was is one thing and I respect your opinion on that even if I don’t necessarily agree. 

But thinking a corps is robbed because their show was more exciting and more interesting? Makes me question your judgment on who deserves to win what

[skevinp]

3 hours ago, Cappybara said:

Lol it’s rules for thee, not for me. 

As I said before, people love to crap on a judge when they score BD high, but they don’t say a peep when the same judge scores BD lower than *insert favorite corps here*

I’ve seen people do that with respect to every corps.

[MarimbaManiac]

7 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

Is “more exciting” and “more interesting” a part of the sheets? 

Thinking a show was better designed and therefore should’ve been given more credit than it was is one thing and I respect your opinion on that even if I don’t necessarily agree. 

But thinking a corps is robbed because their show was more exciting and more interesting? Makes me question your judgment on who deserves to win what

Yes, interesting and exciting are general laymen descriptors that can be mapped to specific areas of the GE sheet. I've been of the opinion for years that most GE judges are too heavily weighting cleanliness vs. effect. Clarity of intent is only one aspect of the sheets, but tend to be leaned on heavily. It's easy to point to cleanliness when you don't fully understand how to quantify the more elusive sections of the categories. 

Again, BD knows this and they design with cleanliness in mind over anything else. For instance, in 2009 Crown should have run away with the gold. Their show was unique, and daring, and engaging, and incredibly difficult. BD did the same thing they always do, and was marginally cleaner. That's a failure of judging and the general judging paradigm. When we're talking about the top 3 corps who are all achieving at roughly the same level, effect and innovation should win the day, hands down. 

[Ashontheinternet]

1 hour ago, Cappybara said:

Sorry to hear that. I encourage you to just enjoy the shows that you enjoy at face value much like most others do who love the activity but may not necessarily like BD’s artistic inclination. 

ive said it before and i will say it again. if you allow the scores and winners to determine how much you like a show or a season, you have got it all wrong. most of my favorite shows season to season dont even medal, let alone win, but you dont see me throwing in the towel and finding a new hobby about it. for example, i didnt love ghostlight, but im not mad or sad it won over the bluecoats. i can recognize that bd deserved their win. thats also how im feeling this year. i dont love the cut-outs, but if it wins im not gonna quit watching dci, because i do love the garden of love, sinnerman, and exogenesis. and every year i see shows and performances i adore and love regardless of placement. it is okay to feel a bit exhausted seeing blue devils in first year after year, but why make a fuss? most will agree they deserve the wins, wether or not the loved the show or not. because at the end of the day this activity is about learning, entertaining, and community, not placements and scores. 

[Chief Guns]

15 minutes ago, skevinp said:

I’ve seen people do that with respect to every corps.

You have a point. Can't argue that. 

[GBugler]

7 minutes ago, Ashontheinternet said:

ive said it before and i will say it again. if you allow the scores and winners to determine how much you like a show or a season, you have got it all wrong. 

Some people prefer the competitive element more than the art. I don't think it means that they don't appreciate the product but why are there judges and scores, if that wasn't also meant to be appreciated? Some people watch baseball games for the beauty of the game itself and don't care about the outcomes. Or figure skating. Or diving, basketball...whatever. This is a nuanced discussion and saying that "you have got it all wrong" is, in itself, wrong. Those folks are no more wrong than people who only want to appreciate the shows and who discount the competitive element.