Madison Scouts 2024

[Gantang]

1 hour ago, Cappybara said:

I’m assuming you’re being a bit tongue-in-cheek with that last paragraph? Competitive inertia is very real, and the only corps who has maybe been able to buck it is BAC, but that was because they gained competitive inertia in 2017 from a series of championship caliber staff hires. And despite those hires, they have not been able to get the gold in the 5 years the staff has been together

You caught me! I know it will never happen but I would love to see a miracle. 

[dcikon2]

My fear is that MS won't be able to get the alumni on board with fundraising due to the current situation.  The alumni could help bring in some top staff.  My other concern is that the Colts, Phantom Regiment, Blue Stars, Cavies are making it difficult for the Scouts to recruit.  

I will give credit to the members for the improvement made throughout the season.  

[fighterkit]

I think that Madison is on the right track to make the moves they need to. This was always going to be a 5 year plan and assuming that all these staff changes would shoot them up into the top 12 in one year is a little silly. 
Give the staff some time to breathe and focus on providing a good member experience. Something I think that they have done. All the members I talked to loved their time at Madison and want to come back. As far as I am concerned that is a success. Make a good environment, make the kids want to come back and the competitive placements wil come back. 
I do think that JRobb leaving is ultimately a good thing for the org. But Madison needs to make the decision to continue to pander towards the alumni or pander towards the judges. You cannot do both. 

Ultimately I am excited to see what happens in 24 and will be following the org closely. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by fighterkit

[TheBerryBari]

Oh god! Oh no! Not another way too early Scouts thread…. aren’t you all still busy yelling at clouds in the 2023 thread? 

Edited August 15, 2023 by TheBerryBari

[arabica]

I started following DCI in 2002, so I've only ever known Madison to be in the sub-6th range. Because they'd won championships in the past, and based on how passionately folks here tend to speak of those glory years, I assumed they were typically in play to medal or win it all most years. So I went back to 1988, ran some numbers, and...that's not the case:

• 1988-2002 [the Stewart years], their average score and placement was 91.080 and 6.9th
• 2003-2006 [the Salas years], they averaged 90.263 and 7.8th
• 2007-2009 [Spanos?] was 83.158 and 14th
• 2010-2014 [Komnick w/Mason & Co] was 88.435 and 9.8th place
• 2015-2023 [Komnick w/o Mason] was 84.443 and 13.9th

I don't know what to do with all that, other than I guess I was surprised that with the exception of 2005, 1995, and 1988, they've consistently lived in that 6th-8th range. And it's been 22 years since they really were locked in to the 5th-7th.

Don't get me wrong, I want Madison back in Finals, but knowing this, there's really only a gap to close of 4pts to get them back in, and 6pts to get back to 6th-8th range.

Not nearly as dramatic as I let myself be led to believe. So...how to close 4-6pts?

Edited August 15, 2023 by arabica

[TheBerryBari]

Yeah people are just extremely overreactive. Madison is in a good position and generally has decent talent (contrary to popular belief…) I think in the recent years and even at the end of the Mason era 2014, 2015ish their show design has just lagged heavily behind more upward trending groups. People believe their fall is a momentous occasion, and that surly Madison is about to drop out of World Class and that Komnick is the devil… blah, blah, blah. Give the kid’s a good show with a good theme and I see an easy two spot increase at minimum. Madison still has more musical ability than some of the corps around them, just need the right show to flex it.

Edited August 15, 2023 by TheBerryBari

[Swmstom1998]

On 8/14/2023 at 9:28 PM, arabica said:

I started following DCI in 2002, so I've only ever known Madison to be in the sub-6th range. Because they'd won championships in the past, and based on how passionately folks here tend to speak of those glory years, I assumed they were typically in play to medal or win it all most years. So I went back to 1988, ran some numbers, and...that's not the case:

• 1988-2002 [the Stewart years], their average score and placement was 91.080 and 6.9th
• 2003-2006 [the Salas years], they averaged 90.263 and 7.8th
• 2007-2009 [Spanos?] was 83.158 and 14th
• 2010-2014 [Komnick w/Mason & Co] was 88.435 and 9.8th place
• 2015-2023 [Komnick w/o Mason] was 84.443 and 13.9th

I don't know what to do with all that, other than I guess I was surprised that with the exception of 2005, 1995, and 1988, they've consistently lived in that 6th-8th range. And it's been 22 years since they really were locked in to the 5th-7th.

Don't get me wrong, I want Madison back in Finals, but knowing this, there's really only a gap to close of 4pts to get them back in, and 6pts to get back to 6th-8th range.

Not nearly as dramatic as I let myself be led to believe. So...how to close 4-6pts?

For us older alums, especially the Stewart years, it isn’t so much “winning a title” or even competing for a title even though being in that 6th-place zone puts you in striking distance.

 It’s more about being competitively relevant. It’s about having that swagger. It’s having show designs that elicit the raw, emotional excitement bursts from the crowd. It’s about once again being the general fan favorite, the rock stars that rolled into the lot blasting music out of the windows and flying the Jolly Roger flag, announcing The Scouts had arrived. It’s about the crowd roaring in excitement before a single note was played. 
  Scouts had that “it” factor that made it a destination corps for kids all over the world, not a stepping stone to the top tier.

 Us DCI dinosaurs understand times have changed in show design and don’t expect the 1988-2000s uniform, G bugles and other throwback esthetics. But we’ve seen what Cavies drums pulled off this year. We’ve seen Downside Up and a horn book and swagger from Coats that was absolutely Madisonesque. 
 Many corps that were small timers back then have passed the Scouts while most of the other big timers from back then are still relevant. We just want Madison to back in that club.
 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Swmstom1998

[Madmusic19880s]

I have been following the MS since the 1980’s. Since positive suggestions/ideas are being requested, I have one to contribute. Perhaps alumni, fans, etc formed a group to raise funds that would be used to promote scholarships for prospective talent. For example, offering one scholarship for each group. The requirements could be geared toward attracting quality students, including exceptional talent. Does anyone else have ideas to share?

[jwillis35]

15 hours ago, arabica said:

I don't know what to do with all that, other than I guess I was surprised that with the exception of 2005, 1995, and 1988, they've consistently lived in that 6th-8th range. And it's been 22 years since they really were locked in to the 5th-7th.

Don't get me wrong, I want Madison back in Finals, but knowing this, there's really only a gap to close of 4pts to get them back in, and 6pts to get back to 6th-8th range.

Not nearly as dramatic as I let myself be led to believe. So...how to close 4-6pts?

Great post and very true. In the 1970s they were a consistently higher-placing corps. In the 1980s and 90s they had their moments of top 5. I want to say off the top of my head 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 88 are all top 5 shows in the 1980s. In the 1990s I think 92, 95 and 97 are top 5. They had 6 top 5 finishes in the 70s. So that's 15 top 5 finishes from 1972 to 1999. Not bad. 

But I will echo what @Swmstom1998 stated. Madison was never really in it to win it. Often their staff did not go to critique. What they were was one killer entertaining corps. From the 70s-90s no corps -- and I mean no corps -- could string together entertaining shows and audience response within a show the way the Scouts could. Not Phantom, Cavaliers, Garifled, BD or SCV. Maybe VK for a while? When it comes to looking back at the sheer number of shows they produced in those almost 30 years and the level of audience response and spontaneous standing ovations there was no corps that could light-up the house quite like the Scouts. 

That swagger, power, showmanship and fantastic music is what people miss. Not the scores. But those kind of shows were more difficult than many might think. In the famous 1988 or 1995 shows Scouts had a brass line that rivaled BD. They actually tied BD and Cadets in 95. It took that kind of talent to pull off that kind of brass book. Wayne Downey of BD discusses this in a video series that BD staff did during the pandemic. He mentions how Madison were the brass kings of the 70s until BD began to challenge them. Those old books required numerous sopranos (now trumpets) that could play in a wide range and with power. Mellos had to have killer chops. Their tubas and baritones were super strong and also had a wide tessatura of range and power. Most players seemed to really understand jazz and swing and latin. They often had soloists that rivaled anyone. This is the part that, until they can really recruit the more experienced players, they will struggle with. So the music book has to be different and playable for now until they begin getting more experience. 

But you have to start somewhere and I always wish them the best. Do what is right for the members. Program a good, solid show that works. A show that can be cleaned. Then see how far you can take it while maxing out the cleanliness. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by jwillis35

[arabica]

On 8/14/2023 at 10:31 PM, Swmstom1998 said:

But we’ve seen what Cavies drums pulled off this year. We’ve seen Downside Up and a horn book and swagger from Coats that was absolutely Madisonesque. 
 Many corps that were small timers back then have passed the Scouts while most of the other big timers from back then are still relevant. We just want Madison to back in that club.
 

I want that for Madison again too. And I agree with you about Bloo, they are filling a niche from an energy, repertoire, and yes - swagger - standpoint that feels like an evolution of Madison. Mandarins in some ways too, this year at least.