DCI's Next Director

[DWW11]

2 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

My point was that with certain cost-added cosmetic changes, the activity has chosen luxury over inclusivity... and the proof of that is seen in the nature of the response (resistance) whenever the idea of trading luxury for inclusivity is brought up.

I was going to let this pass - even as the topic of diversity came up here, no one seems the least bit perturbed about inclusion at the corps membership level.  We all seem concerned that the top jobs, like this DCI CEO position, go more often to underrepresented groups.  Meanwhile, the activity that used to be largely about offering incredible life-changing experiences to underprivileged youth no longer even penetrates the communities where it did all that in past decades.

I GOT your point. I understand your position and actually agree with you about props (mostly). MY point is that you took a non-inflammatory comment made as a counterpoint to your position and you made it sound like they took a reactionary, knee jerk reaponse. It seemed to me, like YOU were the one “Right on cue” with “instant resistance”.  

[Mello Dude]

[cixelsyd]

6 minutes ago, DWW11 said:

I GOT your point. I understand your position and actually agree with you about props (mostly). MY point is that you took a non-inflammatory comment made as a counterpoint to your position 

Sorry to cut you off in mid-sentence... but seriously, is it even a valid counterpoint to my cost concern?  If line items A-D are bigger, then never mind how much line items E-Z cost, or whether they are even necessary?  (That is just a rhetorical question, I guess.)

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and you made it sound like they took a reactionary, knee jerk reaponse. It seemed to me, like YOU were the one “Right on cue” with “instant resistance”.  

I suppose it would seem that way, if this is the first time you are seeing it.  But I have seen it dozens of times on this forum.  And even though I know how hard they will argue, and how vacuous their rationale will be, I am still amazed with each iteration.  Look, here it is:

4 hours ago, LabMaster said:

If you do a comprehensive line item breakdown as others have you will see that props are controllable in terms of cost.  In all line items the year to year big costs remain, housing, food, fuel.  If you are moving 200 plus people everyday on tour, this is especially true. And each of those items increases every year.  You can spend $50k on props one year and the same or less the following year.  You can spend $200k on housing, food and fuel one year and a modest cost increase of 3% raises the cost to $206k the following year.  Always an increase.

Oh, so it must be okay to spend $50,000 annually on props because we spend more on food.  We NEED food.

Although, this idea that prop costs are "controllable" is a fresh myth... especially while admitting that fuel costs are not controllable.  Much of the cost of props is in transporting them.

[LabMaster]

4 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

Sorry to cut you off in mid-sentence... but seriously, is it even a valid counterpoint to my cost concern?  If line items A-D are bigger, then never mind how much line items E-Z cost, or whether they are even necessary?  (That is just a rhetorical question, I guess.)

I suppose it would seem that way, if this is the first time you are seeing it.  But I have seen it dozens of times on this forum.  And even though I know how hard they will argue, and how vacuous their rationale will be, I am still amazed with each iteration.  Look, here it is:

Oh, so it must be okay to spend $50,000 annually on props because we spend more on food.  We NEED food.

Although, this idea that prop costs are "controllable" is a fresh myth... especially while admitting that fuel costs are not controllable.  Much of the cost of props is in transporting them.

Not quite how it was meant.  It was a simple example.  Props costs are controllable because corps decide on the design, number, use, construction and so forth.  Food, fuel and housing are not as controllable because of market fluctuations and yearly economic changes.  Corps can’t really control market cost increases for those items.  But if you wish to be right then be right.  I wasn’t arguing with you.

[DWW11]

17 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:Oh, so it must be okay to spend $50,000 annually on props because we spend more on food.  

I don’t recall seeing the poster say that.  Or anything like that. 

[greg_orangecounty]

If Ron Nankervis won't do it did Don Pesceone have any kids?

[DAL-27]

4 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

My point was that with certain cost-added cosmetic changes, the activity has chosen luxury over inclusivity... and the proof of that is seen in the nature of the response (resistance) whenever the idea of trading luxury for inclusivity is brought up.

I was going to let this pass - even as the topic of diversity came up here, no one seems the least bit perturbed about inclusion at the corps membership level.  We all seem concerned that the top jobs, like this DCI CEO position, go more often to underrepresented groups.  Meanwhile, the activity that used to be largely about offering incredible life-changing experiences to underprivileged youth no longer even penetrates the communities where it did all that in past decades.

For arguments sake lets just say props cost $200k a year to furnish and transport etc... This # is definitely on the high side so lets say it covers that and some of the other 'luxuries' you're talking about.  For a 165 member corps that's worth about $1.2k.  Let's say the organization continues to subsidize the members experience at about $5k and the savings go directly to the members tuition.  We're still talking about $3.8k in tuition for a member.  So the total cost per member goes from about $10k to about $8.8k to pay for buses, trucks, food, housing, instruction, insurance, equipment etc. Another way to look at it is that corps would need to reduce their budget by about $825k to get to $0 membership fees provided they still can afford to subsidize the remaining $5k.  Not sure where you make those kinds of cuts and not affect the members experience.  Even with just basic costs of moving a group down the road it's an expensive activity, and unfortunately unattainable to many underprivileged youth despite efforts to raise scholarship money for them.

The days are gone of fuel costing <$1.00 a gallon, other costs for things like insurance, food etc. are not even close to what they were.  Add on top of that things that need to be taken care of that were hardly considered BITD like safety & wellness and the expectation the members have, among other things, it's just not the same.

I know some organizations are offering programs in an attempt to address inclusivity, some have programs for special needs and urban programming.  In some cases free to students.  A great example is what Inspire Arts & Music (Boston Crusaders) do for inner city students.  In fact, literally in the same neighborhood where it all started (Most Precious Blood Church in Hyde Park, MA).  Maybe we can appreciate that some of these organizations are trying to fill some of the void in the communities they are from where the current drum & bugle corps model no longer works.

https://inspirearts.org/services-view/hype/

With all that said, I hope the new director can figure out ways to change the model to reduce costs and/or figure out ways to increase funding so corps can better afford the costs associated with the activity.

 

[cixelsyd]

45 minutes ago, Jurassic Lancer said:

Not entirely true … this year again, I was fortunate enough financially to be able to fully sponsor an economically underserved Bluecoats member (a member who would not have been able to march without the sponsorship). I try to do my little part for diversity and inclusiveness. 

First and foremost, thank you for your tangible support of this activity.  Scholarships/sponsorships are important acts of human good.  The drum corps experience can totally change the trajectory of a life, so each sponsorship is like a lifeline.  

That said, there was a time when these lifelines were not necessary.  Unheard of, in fact.  Economically challenged communities had WHOLE CORPS of their own (sometimes plural).  And dues were so low that everyone could afford to join.  I wish the marchers of today could experience that kind of inclusiveness, instead of having to hear about it from their grandparents.

[Jurassic Lancer]

12 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

First and foremost, thank you for your tangible support of this activity.  Scholarships/sponsorships are important acts of human good.  The drum corps experience can totally change the trajectory of a life, so each sponsorship is like a lifeline.  

That said, there was a time when these lifelines were not necessary.  Unheard of, in fact.  Economically challenged communities had WHOLE CORPS of their own (sometimes plural).  And dues were so low that everyone could afford to join.  I wish the marchers of today could experience that kind of inclusiveness, instead of having to hear about it from their grandparents.

Yeah, I changed my post … I felt I was being a little too self-aggrandizing … and you’re right … I was part of a couple of those corps that were open to virtually everybody for next to nothing. I too wish that was the reality of today’s corps. 

[cixelsyd]

Here we go again.

35 minutes ago, DAL-27 said:

For arguments sake lets just say props cost $200k a year to furnish and transport etc... This # is definitely on the high side so lets say it covers that and some of the other 'luxuries' you're talking about.  For a 165 member corps that's worth about $1.2k.  Let's say the organization continues to subsidize the members experience at about $5k and the savings go directly to the members tuition.  We're still talking about $3.8k in tuition for a member.  So the total cost per member goes from about $10k to about $8.8k to pay for buses, trucks, food, housing, instruction, insurance, equipment etc. Another way to look at it is that corps would need to reduce their budget by about $825k to get to $0 membership fees provided they still can afford to subsidize the remaining $5k.  Not sure where you make those kinds of cuts and not affect the members experience.  Even with just basic costs of moving a group down the road it's an expensive activity, and unfortunately unattainable to many underprivileged youth despite efforts to raise scholarship money for them.

I am sorry, but being stuck with an expensive line item A is not a valid excuse to splurge on unnecessary line item B. 

This is hilarious.  I just got through pointing out that it is unlikely that the next DCI CEO will have the opportunity to introduce a cost-cutting agenda.  That actually makes it off-topic for this thread... and still, people have to jump in here and argue over props, of all things.

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The days are gone of fuel costing <$1.00 a gallon, other costs for things like insurance, food etc. are not even close to what they were.  Add on top of that things that need to be taken care of that were hardly considered BITD like safety & wellness and the expectation the members have, among other things, it's just not the same.

I know.  That is why I only addressed "cosmetic changes", not necessary things like member safety, food and insurance.

Edited September 28, 2023 by cixelsyd