2muchcoffeeman Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 38 minutes ago, fighterkit said: member fees are not really income and still a loss for the corps Wouldn't say that. 150 kids paying $3,500 each is $525K, which is real money for any drum corps. The total corps budget may be multiples of that amount, but that doesn't make the member revenue "a loss." It's simply a part -- a big part -- of the revenue pie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lesher Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 2 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said: Keep thinking one of the reasons/excuses given for being noncompliant was “there’s a huge backlog with the state due to Covid”. Hope SVC has a reason for thinking this will be done 1/2024. BD and Mandarins are compliant. They have to submit the same forms to the same offices for registration. In fact, Mandarins are listed as up to date through FY22 (which is very up to date given that these registrations are more than a year behind, basically, at year end of FY they nearly have an entire following year to get the audits done and then file with the state and IRS) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSnareDrummer Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 4 hours ago, wolfgang said: Do they get souvie sales revenue if they are a non-profit entity in a state of non-compliance with the State of CA? Just asking what they are and are not allowed to collect if they are not technically shown as compliant with all state regulations? I can offer some t-shirt ideas that would probably be big money makers. Front: Hey We F'd Up! Back : But we're back, baby, full force! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fighterkit Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 11 minutes ago, 2muchcoffeeman said: Wouldn't say that. 150 kids paying $3,500 each is $525K, which is real money for any drum corps. The total corps budget may be multiples of that amount, but that doesn't make the member revenue "a loss." It's simply a part -- a big part -- of the revenue pie. Sure. I think we just disagree on this. The way I see it is that if it costs me 10k to send a kid on the road and they only pay me 5k back I still lose 5k. I don't see that as a gain. Rather that I'm out 5k for this one kid that I need to supplement through other means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lesher Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 1 hour ago, mcjordansc said: They can accept donations now, but the donor cannot receive any tax deduction. Something like 87% of Americans take the standard deduction, so, for that group, being able to deduct donations is not important. I think that is backwards (sort of). They are still listed with the IRS as a non profit that one can deduct from. Bottom line, if you donate to them unsolicited, and you use the IRS roster of authorized charities your own tax filing having deducted what you gave Vanguard is going to be OK. They cannot however ask for donations. Donations have to fall out of the sky. ************** They are effectively like a private club non profit. Think of a hobby club. They have member dues, but don't go out and ask for donations for a greater cause. The hobby club is still a non profit, but it is not a charity. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 They also cannot disburse those donations that fall out from the sky, as far as I can tell and according to the latest DOJ letter, which is why the $20k from the alumni Feeding Vanguard Forever campaign is just chillin' in an account somewhere. Shouldn't have been solicited in the first place. Alum can be upset that whistleblowers didn't take steps to notify VAA before the public, but doing so wouldn't have changed the fact that they were out of compliance and soliciting anyway. The solicitations outside of compliance needed to stop with the full force of public accountability and awareness. Rather than get buried like poor member experiences and abuse have for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lesher Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, fighterkit said: Sure. I think we just disagree on this. The way I see it is that if it costs me 10k to send a kid on the road and they only pay me 5k back I still lose 5k. I don't see that as a gain. Rather that I'm out 5k for this one kid that I need to supplement through other means. The most important thing regarding tour fees is I estimate that the Bingo Staff payroll expenses are in the neighborhood of $500K. Functionally with regard to Bingo compliance they are in very serous trouble if they can't generate non bingo income in that range. The symbiotic relationship was totally ignored without any thought put into it when they pulled the plug on marching 2023. They should have done something minimal during 2023, if only even with the Vanguard Cadets. Just something that was economically neutral at the very least to allow those member fees to flow into Bingo Payroll. It would have at the very least prevented me from calculating with certainty that Bingo is in violation of that law. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 2 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said: Big fan of this, actually. I think show orders are reductive and too reinforcing of the final outcome. Vanguard could always have used some humility and this is forces it upon them a bit. It builds character to perform with the sun shining into your pupils. Most of us that marched top 5 corps had to do that at one point in our previous training. Edit to add: and for gosh sakes it's just half a season. eyeroll i didnt pass judgement on it...and with the way judging is done now with being to adjust numbers as you go, show order means little. just that no one ever expected SCV to be an "oh say can you see corps" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 57 minutes ago, 2muchcoffeeman said: Wouldn't say that. 150 kids paying $3,500 each is $525K, which is real money for any drum corps. The total corps budget may be multiples of that amount, but that doesn't make the member revenue "a loss." It's simply a part -- a big part -- of the revenue pie. i agree loss isnt a good word. i prefer to think of it as a dent in the amount needed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsthnds Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 5 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said: New CEO said in so many words that they have back up plans for their back up plans but that plan A is solid and they're very optimistic it will work. And they get appearance fees as far as I can tell. He just explained it's a "revenue share loss" as a non member corps. I want to believe in their plans so bad. But I can't. The appearance fees will be MUCH lower as they are based on the previous years placement. They will only receive what the 17th and below corps get. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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