Popular Post Chief Guns Posted April 6 Popular Post Share Posted April 6 13 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said: Raising age to 18 would mean everyone is a legal adult & able to consent thus getting rid of adult-minor ‘consensual’ (where minor is not legally allowed to consent) problems. There would still be the problem of non-consent staff & member as well as non-consent member & member assaults. Raising age to 18 could help. Not a 100% solution, but at least a partial solution. I agree with you. But on the other hand it's infuriating and it sucks that so many people that did nothing wrong have to suffer because of the actions of a few (the few in this case being the predators) I say that because if we went this route, it would suck for the 18-19 year old that wants to march drum corps but maybe can't do a full world class tour because of other commitments, so a local open class corps fits more of their schedule. Not to mention goodbye Blue Devils C. But I get it and I agree with you. Just sucks that it only takes a few "Bleep Bleep Curse Curse"........ to ruin it for others. But if it has to be done, then so be it. 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 1 hour ago, greg_orangecounty said: Having raised 4 kids and now watching my grandkids grow up, there is a BIG difference in emotional maturity between a 14/15-year-old and an 18-year-old – generally speaking. An 18-year-old is much more equipped mentally and physically to be able to deal with, report, and say no potential physical, mental, and sexual abuse – be it member to member, or instructor to member. It wouldn’t solve the problem in its entirety, but it would remove the most vulnerable from the clutches of the pervs that continually infect the activity. In retrospect, what were/are we thinking? Packing busloads of children, hormonal teenagers, and young adults, together for weeks at a time on the road cross-country in close quarters without much, if any parental supervision. And we wonder why this keeps happening. Not disagreeing but I'll push back a bit..the 15/16 year old is far different than we were BITD...but I'll also say there is a huge part of the other side leaving staff out that present issues which many seem to forget. AS I said whatever side presents bad behavior should be illuminated no matter who it is. THIS falls on the shoulders of the director and should at all times have eyes in every direction at all times. Youre right...what were we thinking but different times. We weren't thinking 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 (edited) I believe that shifting the age groups will only reorganize predators and lead them to modify their grooming techniques. And it only shifts liabilities for organizations instead of addressing the root issue... The ultimate problem is non consensual relationships within power differentials here. (Noting here that minors, legally, cannot give consent... but SSI training is also clear that neither can legal young adults within power differentials in sports. Perhaps the law should change to acknowledge this, but until it does, organizations should keep this in mind.) Specific age comes into play because of the law, not necessarily because 18 years olds are suddenly more mature and capable than 17.5 year olds. The age change is an important legal marker, but SSI regards this differently than what's being discussed here. They are clear, as I have been, that science has shifted to acknowledge the 18-25 age group as "late adolescence." This age group is still not fully adult in brain or body and deserve specific protections that, in most practicalities, mimic that of minors. It's one thing to say your policy protects minors or young adults. I don't think policies can. Only trained, weathered, compassionate mandated reporters can do that. Changing the age group is just a policy change, and not enough to limit these issues. Edited April 6 by scheherazadesghost 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 2 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said: Raising age to 18 would mean everyone is a legal adult & able to consent thus getting rid of adult-minor ‘consensual’ (where minor is not legally allowed to consent) problems. There would still be the problem of non-consent staff & member as well as non-consent member & member assaults. Raising age to 18 could help. Not a 100% solution, but at least a partial solution. Following that "logic", we could just throw all victims and reporters out of all corps. Make it an operating policy to do that. Look, no abuse victims in drum corps! I thought the point of the youth activity was to... benefit youth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacewill Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 1 hour ago, Chief Guns said: I agree with you. But on the other hand it's infuriating and it sucks that so many people that did nothing wrong have to suffer because of the actions of a few (the few in this case being the predators) I say that because if we went this route, it would suck for the 18-19 year old that wants to march drum corps but maybe can't do a full world class tour because of other commitments, so a local open class corps fits more of their schedule. Not to mention goodbye Blue Devils C. But I get it and I agree with you. Just sucks that it only takes a few "Bleep Bleep Curse Curse"........ to ruin it for others. But if it has to be done, then so be it. Well said Chief. Had a lot more stuff to say but just staying out of it. I will say our 17 year old who will do his second year of world class has benefitted from a fantastic organization and has experienced something he will fondly remember for the rest of his life. We also have been lucky to be part of his journey and it's been an amazing journey to join. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Guns Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 23 minutes ago, spacewill said: Well said Chief. Had a lot more stuff to say but just staying out of it. I will say our 17 year old who will do his second year of world class has benefitted from a fantastic organization and has experienced something he will fondly remember for the rest of his life. We also have been lucky to be part of his journey and it's been an amazing journey to join. Oh I hear you. I have ALOT to say, but like you for the most part have steered clear of this convo. I just hate when the actions of a few ruins it for others. If raising age limits like what's being discussed was to be implemented, your boy would have been impacted, and he would have missed on a great experience last summer with Pac Crest since he would have been "Underage" In the Navy, we have a saying........"Don't be that guy!"......... Wish I could scream that to everyone, and they all listen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOC Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 2 hours ago, Chief Guns said: In the Navy, we have a saying........"Don't be that guy!"......... Wish I could scream that to everyone, and they all listen. Too bad the USAF didn't have that saying with the issues they had years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Guns Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 3 minutes ago, TOC said: Too bad the USAF didn't have that saying with the issues they had years ago. The Navy should have been saying that saying back in 1991. The "Tailhook" scandal shook the Navy to its very foundation. By the time I got to Boot Camp in 1997, we were receiving training and lectures on it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 7 minutes ago, Chief Guns said: The Navy should have been saying that saying back in 1991. The "Tailhook" scandal shook the Navy to its very foundation. By the time I got to Boot Camp in 1997, we were receiving training and lectures on it. I was civilian working for Navy agency when it hit. Thats when we started receiving the first anti sexual harassment training. (And the civilians got same training as military.) And it took a while to get all the pieces together. First few years we only heard about male harassing female… and go to supervisor if problems (what if the supervisor is the problem?) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Guns Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 9 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: I was civilian working for Navy agency when it hit. Thats when we started receiving the first anti sexual harassment training. (And the civilians got same training as military.) And it took a while to get all the pieces together. First few years we only heard about male harassing female… and go to supervisor if problems (what if the supervisor is the problem?) No lies told. Straight facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts