Who would love the Cadets again?

[MikeD]

The following chart represents the degree of crowd reaction in the Cadets 2000 show (which, by the way, is my favorite show of all time) compared to the Cadets 2006 show. Since the recordings are at different volume levels, I'll compare a portion of the show that includes the entire hornline playing, to the audience response at the end of the show, for each show.

Volume of noise, even if recording levels matched, is not a complete indication of what the crowd thought.

BTW...I liked 2000, but it is in NO way my favorite Cadet show ever...we each like what we like.

Now before you say, "Just because the audience didn't clap and cheer as much at the end, doesn't mean they didn't like or were as entertained by the show as much," think about how stupid that sounds.

Actually, it doesn't sound "stupid" at all.

[ChicagoFan]

I'm not going to bother to point out the inherent flaws in your method of attempting to "chart" or anaylze crowd response but the graphics are pretty.

Edited October 13, 2006 by ChicagoFan

[Shimes]

I think if one were to look at innovations in Garfiled/Cedets history.. One would need to closely look at the transitions the corps took from 79-84. The building of the style starting in 79 to it's refinement in the 84 show. Yes the later years are somewhat innovative. To me it's more a rehashing of these earlier thoughts that were started after the demise of the 70's easy drill, park and bark and such. I hope that in the near future.. not only Cadets, but everyone else will realize it's not necessarily singing or miccing up equipment that will keep the fan base or add to it. It would be the return of recognizable melodies. A moment or two to really soak up a great long drum solo (not just a few meaures of gock). There also need to be an ability to create an identity, not just the illusion or feeble attempt at an identity. (Some great identities include (for me)SCV Bottle Dance, 27 toss down the 50, Cavies stepping over the gaurd, or even Ahhhhhh-men from 77 Garfield) Things are so overprocessed now and thought out it seems to lose it's appeal. Corps seem to forget that spontaneity sometimes is better than mandate. I miss raw emotion.

[dbc03]

Talk about calling the kettle black. Cadets 2000 is one example. Crowd reaction isn't everything. Like I said earlier if you watch and listen to Cavaliers 2002, they have one of the smallest crowd reactions I can remember, with the exception of Fight Club. I never saw it live, but I had the chance to see it at the theatres for the Cinecast and it was the same reaction, crickets. However, that show appeals in a different way. They were so clean and you could help but watch in awe at what they were doing. It wasn't a show programmed for crowd response, same thing with Cadets 2005.

*Edited for restraining myself slightly and the point of it being ineffective anyways.*

Just to add to what Adrian is saying here. Like he said in 02 the crowd response to the Cavaliers was pretty much zip up until the fight club sequence, the reason being (and I state this from experience having witnessed it live at finals) was that you were so awe inspired and drawn into the show that you were afraid to cheer very much because you didn't want to miss anything. The first chance that the audience really gets to react to what they've been witnessing is at the end of the fight club section when they finally stop and let you clap.

Similarly, the Cadets 05 does not stop until after the last note is played (literally, everything from the on field warmup until the last note was to specific counts) and isn't designed to let the audience respond as much as say Cadets 00 or 02. Even the ending wasn't really designed for huge crowd reactions.

Just because shows are designed for different reactions doesn't make them inherently better or worse.

[SaxmanSilver]

.........The Cadets came out in '07 and dropped all vocalization, all props and gimmicks, and just plain and simple rocked the freakin house with some musical powerhouse. No spoofs, just balls to the walls music and maddening drill. Nothing mic'd up but the front line. Would you love The Cadets again? I for one would again assume the posture of Cadets fan. Chances of that happening? I'd say about 3%, maybe less.

i'm a cadets fan regardless.

[dans]

i'm a cadets fan regardless.

DITTO :)

[chris ncsu]

DITTO :)

^OO^

[supersop]

It's hard to be a Cadet. Probably, moreso than any other corps. Reading this crap doesn't make it any easier. So here's another perspective that you may or may not wish to read/digest/excrete. If anything, I hope you take away a touch of humbility and an ounce of :sshh:

There has long been a mystique to the Cadets. This is something that has driven drum and bugle corps to the levels it has reached over the course of the last 23 years. The period in the 80's and early 90's when the Cadets were "untouchable", even when they didn't win, was due in large part to the show design and creativity that the staff was allowed to explore. This was not a matermind effort by GH. It was more that Hoppy allowed his staff to express themselves through their design on the field. This has not changed, nor do I see it changing. All the criticism about Hoppy and the staff, whether warranted or not, is going to happen and will continue to happen.

As for the members of the Cadets ..... dont' ever bring them into these conversations. As a former marching member I can only speak to my own personal experiences and the stories of others I've marched with or come in contact with over the years. As for me, I didn't march the Cadets to chase a ring. I didn't march because they constantly brought the crowd to their feet. I didn't go there because I knew I would be pegging dubba C's on the front sideline. I'll tell you why I did it. It was the mystique, the mystery, the awe of the performances that drew me to the Cadets. If anything, this corps, at a membership level, has held more true to drum corps history over the years than any other corps. For a very long time, NO ONE executed as well as they/we did. They continued to push the demand and continued to execute and rediculously high levels. I wasn't pegging dubba C's but I did have plenty of Double F's and G's in 32nd note runs. It took a long time for the activity to catch up to them (in my opinion, this really didn't start to happen until Star '93). Everyone was always a step behind. In many ways, they still are. But we aren't talking about accessiblity, or crowd erruptions. We're talking design folks .. that's not a member issue.

Putting on the colors of the Holy Name was not only an honor, it was a burden. One who marches the Cadets has a history to live up to that is not often realized by Hoppy. He has even admitted so in past interviews. For 17 years, I have questioned my show with the Cadets. Was it good enough? Did we live up to the tradition? Did we make "The Ghost's" proud? How will it measure up on the alltime list? You may think I'm crazy for feeling this way, especially since that show won a DCI Title. But, it's true. As a Cadet, you expect more of yourself. You suspect that the Cadets who came before you expect more than what you can or will give to wear the uniform. You push yourself harder to execute, perfect etc. Somewhere in the middle of tour you hate life and even feel that you're not getting the "family" experiece that one would expect from DBC. However, it all comes together in the end. I know I'm not hitting it on the head, but that's exactly my point. This corps can not now, nor will they ever be understood. They are different, they always will be. The only way to find out for yourself is to march there.

A Cadet member does not go into the season expecting to be loved or understood. They understand the complexity of what they perform and how it effects the "fans" of drum corps (both positively and negatively). They feel the pressure of Cadets past ...... Design staff present ... and fans everywhere in between. How does it service them to constantly cut on thier program? Where would drum and bugle corps be without them? Sure I agree that there could have been a 10-15 year period where drum corps didn't evolve and we just stayed in that groove. It would have been an EPIC period for drum corps. However, with every passing year, the envelope continued to be shreaded. So be it. Get over it. If you dont' like a show ..... email the staff.... email the director..... go get a hotdog when the corps is on the field. Conversely, there are an immense amount of fans and prospective students in this country that love the Cadets program and wish to support and be a part of it. If you dont' get it, I feel sorry for you.

[mistofflies]

Oh really?

The following chart represents the degree of crowd reaction in the Cadets 2000 show (which, by the way, is my favorite show of all time) compared to the Cadets 2006 show. Since the recordings are at different volume levels, I'll compare a portion of the show that includes the entire hornline playing, to the audience response at the end of the show, for each show.

You can't really extrapolate any data from those charts. Different stadium acoustics, different audience numbers, different placement of microphones, different sound equipment, different recording levels, different environmental conditions, etc. etc. etc.

Too many variables to just place those graphs side-by-side and draw conclusions.

[PhantomFanT10]

Wait, Hrothgar has been seeing shows for a shorter period of time than me? I was almost taking his opinion seriously...I thought I was a n00b...:(

I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion. The people who try to force theirs on others are the kind of people whose opinions I find easiest to dismiss after consideration.