hazing/misconduct

[ssorrell]

I am not comparing the responsible use of alcohol to the behavior being described which led to the UW marching band suspension. That having been said, I will go out on a limb and say that I do, in fact, think that having a beer or three after rehearsal helps make champions. There is an intangible quality that extremely high level units possess in addition to discipline, talent, dedication, etc. That quality is unit cohesion and you don't get it by having knitting circles after practice. Alcohol is a powerful cultural uniter, we toast each others health, success in marriage and business and war and to our children. We drink to our fallen comrades and to friends lost over the years. I know that this will sound odd to those who have only known the PC, "for the children", infantilized time in which we live now, but not all that long ago we were not "kids" at 18 years old and shockingly were trusted with *GASP* beer. Those many many beers, shared all those years ago were an invaluable part of my drum corps experience and I suspect played an important part in building a cohesive, brotherhood of champions.

While I agree with your statement above, as I certainly had my fair share of brew while on the road my four years, it really doesn't matter whether anyone uses it responsibly or irresponsibly in drum corps...either way, for the majority of the members, alcohol possession and consumption is illegal. In my tenure, a six pack shared in the parking lot after a night's competition between drum corps comrades was a "cultural uniter", as you called it. And like you, it helped me make many memories back in the day...none of which were a result of over indulgence. But today, beer's champion building qualities of yesteryear aside...it is illegal for the overwhelming majority of the members and thus corps should be very dilligent in keeping it off the road. IMHO, of course.

Edited October 8, 2008 by ssorrell

[ContraRich77]

I couldn't agree more.

And, you're making me thirsty, and it's not even noon!

Hear, hear!!

Pour me a beer too....................nothing would make me happier at this time than to have a beer with a Sacramento Freelancer!

[drumaw]

I didn't see any links to that thread here. I'm not in this forum a lot so maybe I just didn't see the topic, but if it has relevance to this subject I don't see why we shouldn't. I'm with MK on this, if these were isolated to specific people then those people should be punished. What's really missing here is the details. That would make all the difference.

I sure never saw a link to the BC's "incident". Would you mind pointing it out to those of us who missed it. I searched DCP keyword as well. Not out to get the Bluecoats, just curious what you are referring to.

[Bob J]

Hear, hear!!

Pour me a beer too....................nothing would make me happier at this time than to have a beer with a Sacramento Freelancer!

Rich

I'll be sure to look you up next time I'm in the bay area, and we'll drink some Widmer!

Cheers!

[HockeyDad]

Amen. Wake up, practice hard, get in the zone, warm up, perform, drink a few beers on the bus. That was the usual routine for my friends and I, and we were extremely tight and performed very well.

At times, it is overdone, and Finals retreat 2008 is an example of that. The Bluecoats drumline was full of age-outs with tons of years of experience who had been frustrated all summer by drum corps issues that were out of our control. Retreat was our last hoorah, the last time when we were all together at the same place at the same time. Some of our acts were regrettable however, and ever since that night those responsible have been dealing with the repercussions. Hope that clears some stuff up too.

Thanks!

Do you "drink a few beers of the bus" when you're 18, the bus ride is University sponsored, and the drinking age is 21?

[wvu80]

For those of you who think you can only have camaraderie by drinking alcohol while underage, I'm sorry your lives are so limited. There are a bunch of us who have had fantastic lives, great friends and great experiences without having to drink to prove anything, to anybody.

For those on this board who are young and feel like it sounds great to drink, that's called "be like me so I can feel validated" kind of wishful thinking. It's the "herd" mentality, so don't fall for it.

You can have self confidence, a feeling of self-worth and be a champion; alcohol has nothing to do with it.

[OMH]

Amen. Wake up, practice hard, get in the zone, warm up, perform, drink a few beers on the bus. That was the usual routine for my friends and I, and we were extremely tight and performed very well.

At times, it is overdone, and Finals retreat 2008 is an example of that. The Bluecoats drumline was full of age-outs with tons of years of experience who had been frustrated all summer by drum corps issues that were out of our control. Retreat was our last hoorah, the last time when we were all together at the same place at the same time. Some of our acts were regrettable however, and ever since that night those responsible have been dealing with the repercussions. Hope that clears some stuff up too.

Thanks!

I am so sad for you. I mean that sincerely.

I thought you were a dead lock for the Sanford at the beginning of the season, and I rooted for you.

I wonder what could have been had you partied a little less and took your skill to the very hard to reach next level.

You were technically at the highest level, with the best direction, but you choose to goof around too much.

You HAD it, and I think your collective egos lost it.

Your entire summer should be documented as how to take a great pool of talent and under achieve.

People could learn from it.

d##n it.

Edited October 9, 2008 by OMH

[NR_Ohiobando]

I'm not a drinking person. I don't like the smell of beer, so I would assume that I wouldn't like how it tastes. I'm also not very comfortable with any type of mind/body altering consumptions(taking medicine, sleeping/laughing gas), so that's probably part of my reasoning.

However, I know that some people do drink because it's fun for them and what-not, so I can understand people thinking it's perfectly fine/normal. Personally I'd rather just be high off of life, since it's basically the same thing except healthier. Besides, the whole legal drinking age problem doesn't make this idea of a few beers in corps a good idea to my ears. I guess I just have higher standards than some people though.

If I ever get the chance though, I'd drink red wine(I hear red wine is good for your heart or something).

I am so sad for you. I mean that sincerely.

I thought you were a dead lock for the Sanford at the beginning of the season, and I rooted for you.

I wonder what could have been had you partied a little less and took your skill to the very hard to reach next level.

You were technically at the highest level, with the best direction, but you choose to goof around too much.

You HAD it, and I think your collective egos lost it.

Your entire summer should be documented as how to take a great pool of talent and under achieve.

People could learn from it.

d##n it.

My head is going to explode trying to figure out if this is sarcastic or not.

[Scerpella]

As a Wisconsin and Badger Band Alum my feeling is that there is a culture there that carries with these kinds of dangers.

That band is all about hype. Its all about high emotions during the performances and even rehearsals which I remember were always high energy. The energy level is so high that I think the music suffers, the kids are all about marching that funky Big 10 style so ferociously that what comes out of their horns is slop. And this has been true since I marched in the late 70's. Not that it wasnt a huge blast! But the moment the band got together even if it was on a bus to the Dane County Coliseum where the Hockey games used to be held, the hyping started. It was (is?) perhaps what most defined the spirit of the band. Being rowdy and out of control is a reputation they cherish and cultivate.

Something that happened in my senior year on a road trip to MSU always stayed with me and helps me to see that in a lot of ways the UW Band was definitely a different animal. After the game (MSU tromped us 52-2) we were all invited to MSU's band hall. The MSU band wore hair nets, was very polite and kind of reserved (to us) while we were loud obnoxious etc. They got up and sang their band song and it sounded like a good chorus, 4-5 part harmony. Then they asked us to sing ours. Well the problem was all of our songs were filthy. So one of the guys gets on top of their piano (I dont think they appreciated that) and directs us thru "Varsity". Its the song the crowd sings at halftime, I think its three lines and is capped off with waving arms and "U, Rah, Rah Wi-i-is-co-on-sin". We sang it poorly and in unison. So we were kind of humiliated by MSUs band performance and maturity compared to us. At one point, one of their kids leans over to me and says, "You guys sure swear alot. They dont allow that in the MSU band". It occurred to me at least compared to these kids, we had no class whatsoever. Funny sidenote is that through the miracle of the internets, I actually talked with an MSU band guy about a year ago and he remembered exactly the way I did!

This I think is a microcosm of the UW Band culture over the past almost 40 years of Leckrone's tenure, tolerated I believe out of a desire to have a no holds barred high energy band which always entertains. (And it does) And this is what I mean about a culture that has inadvertantly allowed these problems to develop over the years.

Now back then, all the girls in the band, (and this was only the 3rd year since they had been allowed in), understood to be accepted you had to buy in and be a guy and they were. They were just as likely to burp and swear and sing filthy songs, but the big difference was that if someone crossed a line with them they were going to get a foot in the face or crotch from one of these very self reliant young ladies. I think alot of people simply dont know what theyre getting themselves into when they join that band. Shy and retiring and easily embarassed doesnt fly. But in those days equality meant equality, very little nuance to it, and the girls were tough enough to take it and give it back in equal measure. Nowadays I dont know.

I also have wondered if what goes on on the bus trips and away trips is any different than what goes on in the average college dorm nowadays? My only hope is that the school administration doesnt pull a Duke and ruin some kids lives over this. Or worse yet, send Leckrone packing.

[Drum Korps Fan Man]

I'm not a drinking person. I don't like the smell of beer, so I would assume that I wouldn't like how it tastes. I'm also not very comfortable with any type of mind/body altering consumptions(taking medicine, sleeping/laughing gas), so that's probably part of my reasoning.

However, I know that some people do drink because it's fun for them and what-not, so I can understand people thinking it's perfectly fine/normal. Personally I'd rather just be high off of life, since it's basically the same thing except healthier. Besides, the whole legal drinking age problem doesn't make this idea of a few beers in corps a good idea to my ears. I guess I just have higher standards than some people though.

Firstly: underage drinking has no place in drum corps (if I thought people could handle moderation effectively, I would argue that a small drink is OK, but, being illegal, I'll say no). For people who are of-age, on a free day is a place they should have to make a decision. A few brews is one thing, getting trashed and being unconcious all night is another.

Also, I would argue (and I won't go into the reasons here) that the drinking age should be 18. If I thought America could change its culture to the point that would be needed, I would argue even younger, so people are used to alcohol by the time they have to be responsible for themselves when using it.

Secondly: I absolutely respect your opinion to not imbibe alcohol. I understand being uncomfortable with mind altering things.

I do have to say, however, that as much as I thought I wouldn't like drinking when I was younger, I tried it and liked it. In the right environment, it is a blast to get blasted.

Thirdly: Being "high on life" is not even close to the same thing as being drunk. I have always argued that being drunk, or even a little tipsy, brings out a person's true personality. Being a happy person does not release your inhibitions like drinking, and I will say that some of the best (as in deepest and most rewarding) conversations have been had over a few beers.

Finally: The fact that you have chosen not to drink does not make you better than anyone, nor does it imply 'higher standards'. I never drank untill I was of a legal age (granted it was younger then) and even I resent your implication that you are somehow better than me. A person's actions do nothing but give an indication of who that person MAY be- in order to judge who is 'better' you have to first somehow come up with a fair, objective system for judging that, and then somehow quantify a person's "goodness"

not to get down on you, I just don't like it when people inadvertently subjugate others.

edit: all that being said, what UW-Madison's band did crosses the line, and they were right to be punished.

Edited October 9, 2008 by Drum Korps Fan Man