OFFICIAL 2009 Madison Scouts Thread

[Machiavelli]

SUMMARY - IMO this year's struggles are on the show designers and staff. You let the kids down, and they deserve better, much better. My opinons only. Flame away -

There should be no flaming. An honest assessment like this is needed. Same with RBarron10's above. I won't see anymore shows this year, so this is my place to see what each corps' fans are saying.

Each "Official" thread on DCP has homers that think everything is great, but Hey!, that's what homers do...Cubs fans...but it's the posters who can objectively assess and describe that I like reading.

Homers and flamers are both fun to read, but objectiveness is informative.

Edited July 25, 2009 by Machiavelli

[GGarrett]

There should be no flaming. An honest assessment like this is needed. Same with RBarron10's above. I won't see anymore shows this year, so this is my place to see what each corps' fans are saying.

Each "Official" thread on DCP has homers that think everything is great, but Hey!, that's what homers do...Cubs fans...but it's the posters who can objectively assess and describe that I like reading.

Homers and flamers are both fun to read, but objectiveness is informative.

Oh sure... one day the Cubs will win the World Series, and you'll be: "Oh, I've been a Cubs fan for YEARS. I've always thought they were great. They just needed some focus..."

(little tongue smiley indicates I'm kidding...)

One day Madison will win DCI again... it will be a great come back story for the time it happens... and everyone will be: "Oh, I've been a Scouts fan for YEARS. I've always thought they were great. They just needed some focus..."

(there it is again... little smiley guy)

now here come the real flamers... the 10 or so here who can't resist hurting the Scouts organization and alumni as much as possible when able to... becaue thos dang alumni are so anoying and drink the kool-aid and over-hype and ... oh wait, did I see a "Colt's got screwed!" thread out there? That's already closed? ... yes I did. Those #### alumni...

[Machiavelli]

Oh sure... one day the Cubs will win the World Series, and you'll be: "Oh, I've been a Cubs fan for YEARS. I've always thought they were great. They just needed some focus..."

No way!!! I'm a Sox fan, and unlike Obama, I know it was Comiskey Park..not ComiNskey Field.

Now, Madison winning again, that would make me happy. Same with SCV, or anyone new...or Devils or Cavies.

(Flamers will note I didn't list Cadets (neither Holy Name, Garfield, Allentown, Bergon County, or any other name they've held in the past 75 years.)

[HockeyDad]

You know, it hurts to see the Scouts struggle. I first saw Scouts in '78 and wow, the Swagga! The guard 30 years ago had it. They knew who they were and sold it. The rifle squad - doing splits in the air. That's swagger. Anway...... fast forward. I live in Wisc. I have a kid in the UW marching band. She has a friend from the band in Scouts this year. We donate. We follow them. Needless to say, I'm a Scouts fan. And the emotion I had this year, after seeing the show several times....was anger at the designstaff for what they're putting out there for the kids. I suppose I'm wrong to feel this way. I'm sure the staff is full of really great people. Oh yeah, my kid....the one in the UW band....she knows one of the brass instructors from a couple yrs ago in Blue Stars. So...yeah...there's connections everywhere. Arrgh - so frustrating this year.

[Steven Rocco]

I think there show is entertaining andf they ar good just not as much as other corps this year. and it is

not the end of the world. San Fransisco 49ers have been on top and they have been down low. it happens

Scouts will some day be back at the top. They have a lot going on inside their organization to rebuild

structurally and financially. And this is far more imortant for the long haul. You cant hire and keep the very best

staff if you don't have a solid base. The next 5 years madison might be in and out of finals and they should be

ok with that while they strengthen from within and build up. And when thwey have it all together, they will

be back up at the top and be able to stay there. Look at blue Stars and Crown. How did they get were they ar now?

They put there houses in order patiently over a long period of time and when the time was right, they made their ,moves.

And you really cannot do that affectivly if you are half a million in debt. (I know they have payed alot of that off now) So lets us be patient with scouts. I know we all want them to be great again and powerful again but it's just going to take awhile.

Go Scouts!

Edited July 25, 2009 by Steven Rocco

[RBarron10]

I agree with both Rocco and Hockey Dad. I was once on the MSBD when the corps was in the black, the good old days when people would throw babies at the corps.

Here is my concern and I first saw this in 2002. In 2002 a few boys from my area made the Scouts, these boys were twins. They had a large family and at the beginning of the 2002 the family purchased tickets for DCI finals. Can you image the disappointment that this family had when after putting two kids through the Scouts not to be able to see them perform on Finals night? Before 2002 if you had a kid in the Scouts you KNEW they would be performing on finals night, it was a question that never entered your mind. It was not a wait and see type thing, it WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

Let's fast forward the last few years. We now have the large regional shows. In 2007 and 2008 Madison didn't make the Top 12 in any of the regional shows, but did pull off a Finals night performance in 2008. Parents now days spend upward of $2000 per kid to march in corps like the Scouts. If I was a parent of a kid in the Scouts and he didn't march in the Finals nor was he competitive at any of the regional shows I might be looking for another drum corps to put my child in. I think with this placement outside of the Top 12 in regional and DCI Finals shows it is going to HURT the quality of member the Scouts can draw. Blue Stars is becoming the premier corps in Wisconsin and they are just up the road from Madison. Has Madison now become the feeder corps for Blue Stars?

I understand the brotherhood of the Scouts etc. I know that members that used to march Scouts enjoyed their summers and loved the Scouts organization, but that was when the corps was a sure win at Regional/Finals. Madison used to have a reputation of being the Club Med of Drum Corps. Kids marched Madison because they knew Scott would only practice up to 8 hours a day and would not march the boys to death. This was unlike the other Midwestern corps, such as Star who practiced all hours of the day.

I heard that the boys had money problems and Jeff and Dan were working within to fix that. I see a lot of alumni involvement and it was nice to see the souvie trailer with names of the alumni who have donated money to the corps this year. I did read that Madison will have a winter guard this year that should help with the guard. But what about the drill writers and brass lines? Madison brass is in 13th place, drums are in 15th/16th place, guard is in 13th/14th place. You read the bios of the staff and it reads like a who’s who in drum corps. Something is not right. I don't know who can take credit for the Replago idea, but a comic superhero themed show come on guys what were you thinking? At least the pirate show had some teeth and wow moments ... remember the sword fight on the spinning cymbal's rack.

I really do hope that Madison can pull out the nose dive they are in. I want to see Madison back in the Top 6 where I believe they belong. But a lot of work has to be done with the right staff to get them their.

[corps8294]

As I stated in a Scouts thread after the '07 season, the Madison Scouts have become a caricature of themselves. For whatever reason, they are hell bent on reliving the popularity of thier 1994, '95, and '96 Latin trilogy to every degree imaginable.

I love the new uniforms that were introduced last year, they are a touch of the old with a modern flare; however, the programming did not match. It was almost like watching a live comic book version of mighty Madison Scouts. Same thing is happening this year.

If the Madison Scouts seriously want to make a run at a solid finals placement, they need to take a look at what makes the Madison Scouts the Madison Scouts and not base thier image within a show theme; by doing that, they will be nothing more than a caricature.

[Machiavelli]

If the Madison Scouts seriously want to make a run at a solid finals placement, they need to take a look at what makes the Madison Scouts the Madison Scouts and not base thier image within a show theme; by doing that, they will be nothing more than a caricature.

Great observation. Trying to convince people who you are rather than being who you are never works.

After last night, I'm doubtful they can make Finals. I hope they focus on quality marching and playing and not on making the theme even more POW, BANG, and whatever.

Being a dignified semi-finalist rather than a cartoon is a worthy goal.

[cymbalmom]

Good Morning Scouts Fans!

Warning: This is probably not one of those objective reviews some seek - as mom of a current Scouts who has a bit of 'mama bear' attitude, it is not possible. That said, I wonder if any of the recent posters watched the show last night and heard the audience response? It sounded (from Fan Network) like they were eating it up - as were we hear at home! The show has great excitement both musically and in design. It is my understanding that Scouts always sought/seek? to please the fans first and it sounded like they did. I didn't hear a similar roar of approval for Spirit (even though they are practically at a home show) or Crossmen, Academy, or Colts.

I saw significant changes in show design last night and liked what I saw - the narration at the start (pre-show, I think) works and is minimal enough to suit my taste in narration. The change from having the 'dead' Relampago carried by guard (that always seemed sloppy) to the return of a shaman character makes more sense and clues the audience into the use of the guard capes at the start. The drill is, in my opinion, much more thrilling to watch than any of the other shows in this group of corps - they move fast, make recognizable figures that makes sense with the story. GE and visual performance scores are placing better - going in the right direction. Brass sounded fabulous and this is reflected in the recaps. I have no idea why percussion is scoring lower than peer corps some days and better on others, but that's the section I watch most and I see the battery (and horns, too) moving while playing while other corps (even the BD) do a lot more standing still (or sitting!) while playing. This leads me to wonder if the drill is just too taxing and is effecting technique? I'm not a musician but a biologist, so I come at this from a physiological perspective. Just a thought.

Last night was the first of my viewings where I really liked the show and the music - it really came together for me and I felt the excitement of it. Maybe it's the swagger, maybe it's the design changes, maybe it's just so much cleaner than Denver (it is!!), for sure the sound from the hornline is 12th place.

My favorite outcome that I do think is achievable this year?? Tie for 12th place with Troopers!

Go Scouts!! - narrow the gap with the Academy next - You Can Do It!! ...POW!!

[Machiavelli]

... It is my understanding that Scouts always sought/seek? to please the fans first and it sounded like they did...

After speaking with alumni from the '70s and '80s in 2006 when they did their alumni corps in Madison, there seems to be a disconnect between different eras. The earlier Madison corps were very competitive and expected to beat Chicago, La Crosse, Racine and Rockford to be the best in the midwest. They considered DCI Midwest in Whitewater to be a must win show to demonstrate home field dominance, and clearly the '74, '75, '76, and '81 corps were pushing to win the whole shootin' match. The Drum Corps Midwest championship was vitally important to Madison. I think they actually did a run off show against Phantom after tying in finals one year...maybe '82? If that's not worrying about placement, I'm not sure what is.

Somewhere in the past two decades, someone decided that judges didn't matter ad that pleasing the crowd was the only thing Madison stood for. Well in the grand history of the corps, this is a new mind-set. For a long time, Scott Stewart wrote the corps' introduction to include the fact that the Madison had been a DCI finalist in all but one year of DCI's existence. There must have been some pride in the competitive success or it wouldn't have been mentioned.

This change in approach squares with the rise in Caviliers, Phantom, Blue Coats (didn't they compete in DCM for a while?), and Glassmen. Once Madison no longer dominated the region, they began to claim that scores don't matter, only crowd response.

Are there actual alumni that can shed light on when the transformation took place. Guys I drank beer with in 2006 were unhappy that the Scouts weren't placing higher and they said they were embarrassed that Madison had missed Finals in 2002. Are they just nuts, was the beer clouding their memory, or has the philosophy changed and the old guys just lost touch?