DCI finals review

[Bob984]

1) "The pot calling the kettle black" is generally used when the "pot" is displaying hypocrisy. With regards to what I posted, I can only assume you believe that my posts are worthless and closed minded. Could you provide something to back that up please? If you'd like to attack me, bring it on, but at least bring something to the table.

2) If you haven't noticed, I pop in pretty rarely now. "Drum Corps Planet" is hardly a fitting name for the community here, which I feel is very disproportionately representative of the drum corps fan base and more interested in broadcasting their "holier than thou" opinions than developing a compelling argument backed by reasonable supporting facts. Sadly, I don't see this changing any time soon, so I've found better things to do with most of my time.

DCP is a place where people can "freely" post their opinions and observations when reviewing performances, or anything involving the activity in other sections. Some people back up their opinions fairly insightfully, some people simply state them. I have read reviews that I fully agree with, and those which I hardly agreed with at all, but I defend the right for the writers to post them, and it is good to see that people have different viewpoints and do not always concur. Frankly, the only drum corps newspaper we have posts all "rosy" evaluations; it wasn't always that way, though. I realize that their intentions are good, as they do not wish to deject corps members during the season. DCP allows people to truly "critique" the corps, and write about what they felt was good, or bad, about anyone's performance. They can and do also comment about the competitive results of the show. I think that most reviewers do care that these are kids and not paid professionals, and it's rare to see a review which slams everyone, or doesn't at least find a few things good in a performance. Many are alumni themselves, so they have spent countless hours on a hot parking lot themselves. Some would say that nothing critical should be expressed, as the kids will read it. However, in the real world, EVERYTHING is critiqued; in the arts, we have performances of every kind critiqued, and I have read critiques that slammed performances that I loved, and raved over those I didn't enjoy at all. If you are a performer, you should expect for your performance to be critiqued, even at this level, and at higher levels that some of these kids will reach.

Much of the time, I think that many who write here do reflect the reactions of the fan base, but I do think some are out of touch. I have also read some things that come off as pretty absurd (but hey, I also liked the "Gong Show" when growing up) so that keeps it interesting. However, I don't think that ANYONE can possibly say if DCP writers reflect the views of the drum corps fan base short of polling the majority or all of the fans in attendance at any show or season-wide.

GB

[PRPhan4ever]

It's over ------ let's look fwd to 2010 !!!! BD won.... 1,000's liked there show, and probably the same numbers had issues and dislikes about it. We've covered evry angle, aspect, color, position, placement, score, bias, non-bias, judging to the limit already.

Whatever 2009 was --- it's over and THE JUDGES picked thier einners, the audience didn't!

THE END

[LAMystreaux]

This is the problem. You're missing MagicBob's point. He wasn't saying "you must agree with me or your not open-minded", he was simply responding to the comment..."Count me in as one of those who it went in one ear and out the other" - What would you take that to mean if you were talking to your kid and he said that to you??? That's the problem here, no one's really hearing the other guy's viewpoint, it's filtered through our prejudice. AND there's way too much unsubstantiated finger pointing, sound bites with no meat and just plain angry posters looking to somehow make themselves feel better by hurting the corps that hurt them. MagicBob might be one of the few posters who almost religiously qualifies his comments with facts and so does Jeffsnewjetta (though recently he's been a bit crabby and short with his responses, but I'm sure that will pass. ).

It didn't go in one ear and out the other. Sarcasm is lost in the forums it seems. Believe it or not, some people didn't like the show, didn't think it was that difficult, and can still be objective and analytical about it. We don't all have to agree. Sheesh.

[Jeff Ream]

It's over ------ let's look fwd to 2010 !!!! BD won.... 1,000's liked there show, and probably the same numbers had issues and dislikes about it. We've covered evry angle, aspect, color, position, placement, score, bias, non-bias, judging to the limit already.

Whatever 2009 was --- it's over and THE JUDGES picked thier einners, the audience didn't!

THE END

illegal use of logic. loss of amps, 10 yards

[PRPhan4ever]

#### --- lossof 10 yard... does that mean that I have to 'repaint the hash marks'? Gosh things we go through..........

[chrisNAtlanta]

Oh, and I'm sure you would have felt completely OK if you were in BD's shoes and were booed at finals. If you're upset with the scores and decide to boo, aim them at the box where the guys in the green shirts are and make sure the members can't hear it.

I am biased, that is why I never comment on other corps or give reviews because I obviously think that the way BD approaches the marching arts is the best. But I WILL defend the Blue Devils when it is obvious they are being bashed. Fine, you and the majority of DCP didn't like the show and I won't get upset over that. However, when someone says that BD's score (which was attained by a full Summer's hard work) is laughable, expect a response.

General comment: Unless you're walking up to complete strangers to ask their opinion, don't tell me that everyone around you hated their show.

Let me correct you.....I purposely said that I DID NOT participate in the boo'ing for exactly the reason you mentioned....the kids. No one booed until the score was announced. Everyone around me, and my friends, were not happy at all that the 2nd-5th place corps did not overtake BD, but we did not boo. To put them at .10 away from the highest score in DCI history is just not right. Mind you, this is opinion, but one shared with many.

I will summarize with one thought....DCI is a youth activity that has to be supported with a fan base. Economic fact. SCV brought me to tears with the beauty. Cavies, loved the guard and visual. Cadets, loved the AMAZING visual and exciting, exciting, show.... Crown, loved the guard, brass and pure creativity of the show. BD....myself and all my friends could only say "Boring and easy as hell in comparison, but they are clean."

Back to my economic statement....I would hold up almost ALL champion shows since about 1984 to a novice viewer and say "this is exciting and you should go spend a ton of money to see a show for THIS" to many people. I cannot do that with this year's champion, in my opinion, and I have been watching/marching/teaching since 1984. Spartucus made my parents come back to a show for the first time since 1990 when I last marched. Point made.

Winning is important in this world......but those who create magic are remembered for a long time.

There was much magic this year, for many reasons, except the champion. Congrats to the members of BD. I'm proud of them, and their achievements, but just hope they are not replicated in design for other corps.

Side note, in Atlanta I brought 8 novice viewers and their favorites in no order were:

Crown

Cadets

Cavies

Blue Stars

Bluecoats

Just my 2 cents. We must reach the audience and teach kids, and not focus on a ring/placement as the end all to be all of this activity.

[mellodramatic]

I think sometimes the "booing" is confused for "blooing" because I'm pretty sure some people are confused as to which blue corps to "bloo". Maybe it's just me.

[MagicBobert]

you call others out for being inflexible and closed minded when you yourself have shown to be the same many, many times on here.

So posting my opinions and supporting them with facts means that I'm closed minded? Can you point to an instance where I've been closed minded? Whenever I've disagreed, I've tried to support my views with as much evidence as possible so my line of thinking isn't a mystery.

I had noticed. Fewer fights as a result. Yet, in your post earlier and this one, you do exactly that which you blast others for doing on here.

Imagine that, remove someone with a contrasting view and fewer arguments crop up. I get irritated not when people post their opinions, but when their opinions are not backed up by some line of reasoning. There's a big difference between saying "I don't enjoy the Devils drill because I personally prefer more geometric drill" and saying "The Devils drill is easy." The first is a personal preference, which is fine. The second is a subjective assessment based on judging from an armchair. I see this kind of argument most often from people who never marched Devils drill, and aren't familiar with the challenges and difficulties of complex, morphing curvilinear forms. I've discussed this in thorough detail throughout the season, so if you're curious do a search for my recent posts.

My point is merely that making these kinds of statements without backing them up with your line of thinking is just going to incite uninformed argument and pointless debate. Instead of saying "The Devils' drill is easy", say "I think the Devils' drill is easier because of X". That kind of argument allows for infinitely more intelligent, positive discussion instead of the shouting matches that most threads currently dissolve into.

So unless people are in agreement with you they are not open-minded? I've seen the show, both live and online several times. . .and at Finals very up close. I think I'm right, and so do you. I guess this is where most people agree to disagree and move on.

My point was not that you're opinion is wrong, invalid, or incorrect. I was saying that when you make comments like this:

Keep selling it, but I won't buy it.

it comes across as close-minded and that you're not even reading what I'm writing. If you think I'm wrong, fine. If you think the Devils show was the easiest in DCI this year, fine. But when you whip out quips like that, you don't come across like you're generally interested in discussing anything unless you agree with it.

Look, this is my main point and all I'm asking here.

When you state an opinion, show us your reasoning. I may not agree with your opinion, in fact I may not even agree with your line of reasoning. But at least I can respect it because you showed me the way you formulated it.

When you post a review, explain why you like and don't like certain elements. Nobody's arguing that your opinions aren't valid, but we can't continue the discussion unless we understand what's happening in your head. In fact, we can't examine our own opinions and possibly change them unless you provided us compelling reasons to do so. When you just post something like "The Devils have the easiest show this season and I don't understand why they're winning." Something caused you to think that, something propelled you to interpret it that way. Just put that something into words! You've got to convince, not just state.

That's all I ask. Is it too much? I'm just trying to promote a healthier, more engaging form of discussion in a forum which is known for it's shouting matches. Does anyone disagree with that goal?

[do.it.up.]

When you post a review, explain why you like and don't like certain elements. Nobody's arguing that your opinions aren't valid, but we can't continue the discussion unless we understand what's happening in your head. In fact, we can't examine our own opinions and possibly change them unless you provided us compelling reasons to do so. When you just post something like "The Devils have the easiest show this season and I don't understand why they're winning." Something caused you to think that, something propelled you to interpret it that way. Just put that something into words! You've got to convince, not just state.

YES. I AGREE.

Trying to defend BD on DCP is futile. I've learned to just let the Dev's medals, trophies, and records do all the talk.

[bawker]

I'm just trying to promote a healthier, more engaging form of discussion in a forum which is known for it's shouting matches. Does anyone disagree with that goal?

I sure as hell don't.