Why is Change a so bad?

[Kamarag]

sorry John, on this we will disagree a lot. Fiedler said it, and yes, many on here ( cue MikeD) have tried to cover his tracks for him, but if you look at the history of drum corps, this bears out going back to the beginning of time.

No, it doesn't. You're trying to make a correlation between use of electronics and competitive success that simply isn't there. I'm not saying corps should or shouldn't use electronics, but the fact that most corps do isn't proof you HAVE to, no matter what Fiedler said.

Look, we've already established that corps aren't credited for good use of electronics, and aren't held accountable for bad use. You're assuming that a judge sees a synth in the pit and give them some sort of bonus points? Is there some check-box on the sheets I'm not aware of that says only corps with electronics can get a max score? If so, which caption is that in?

What you are suggesting is a much larger conspiracy. I know a lot of DCI judges personally, and I refuse to believe that they have been told to only reward corps with certain equipment. For them to even consider doing so goes against every educational belief I was brought up with.

[Jeff Ream]

ok maybe the judges aren't in on it...but the mindset is there, and has been for forever.

perception can be reality, and when you look at this, it's been proven time and time again. To use G bugles the view is "you're old school, bad intonation" etc. now if you dont use all the electronic toys, same basic idea.

and to be honest, an unamped pit would get called out every day for not being able to be heard as opposed to an amped pit being too loud.

[Galen]

ok maybe the judges aren't in on it...but the mindset is there, and has been for forever.

perception can be reality, and when you look at this, it's been proven time and time again. To use G bugles the view is "you're old school, bad intonation" etc. now if you dont use all the electronic toys, same basic idea.

and to be honest, an unamped pit would get called out every day for not being able to be heard as opposed to an amped pit being too loud.

Exactly, because as far as I know there's no LANGUAGE in the rules that focuses on amps being too loud, feedback, etc.

[Kamarag]

Exactly, because as far as I know there's no LANGUAGE in the rules that focuses on amps being too loud, feedback, etc.

And that's something that needs to be addressed. I agree 100%.

[Jeff Ream]

so who will be the sucker that proposes it? has to come from a corps

[Kamarag]

so who will be the sucker that proposes it? has to come from a corps

I know it was discussed during the instructor's caucus last year, but since they couldn't write any proposals...

[Jeff Ream]

well, until someone does, i see it continuing to be a joke.

but i guarantee if someone wasnt amped, they'd be cricified

[Piper]

Remember when Coke changed it's formula so it would taste more like Pepsi? It was a bloody disaster.

[JimF-LowBari]

So what Im hearing is give me change just not alot..hmmmm

Then you're only hearing half (like talking to my dad):

The half you didn't catch is that the changes 2000-today added new sounds (amps/synths/more vocal) to the traditional/historical horn/percussion voices. Any previous changes added new horns and perc but still was within horns and drums only. This is the part IMO that has alienated people more than than anything else I've seen.

Half you heard is the number of changes in the last few years compared to the rate in previous years. IMO this is more like a WTF???

Edited May 17, 2010 by JimF-LowBari

[perc2100]

Anyway, I think if we were to define the true "fundamentals" of the activity, you can substitute any instrument or design aspect for something else, and the basic ideals still apply.

ok,... so just what ARE the " fundamentals " of the Drum and Bugle Corps today in your view ?......" fundamentals " that I presume you would believe should never be altered ? ( after all that is the very essence of the " fundamentals " of something... anything) and upon which we could then " substitute any instrument or design for something else ?

We know what" the intangibles "are... ie, discipline, hard work, time management skills, musical training enhancement, etc and all that. But just what ARE " the fundamental components " of the Drum Corps now that presumably should never be altered ?

Not sure if we know anymore.

Had you quoted the entire paragraph (read: my entire thought on that manner), you probably would've seen my answer. Here is the quote after the above sentence that finishes the paragraph/though on what the fundamentals of drum corps are in my opinion:

t

he 'real' ideals of drum corps involve the camaraderie of corpse membership, working as a group to achieve one overall goal, the best of times/worst of times, family, friendship, learning from the best instructors in the world, performing for thousands of people, putting on a uniform that represents generations of performers that sometimes stretch far before you were born but are now part of 'your' lively hood, etc. I honestly see design trends, instrumentation, etc. as "bells and whistles" of the activity: the things that get kids in the door and excited to be a part of it. That will be never-changing, just as pop culture trends are always changing. But once you get past that stuff the ideals I named above are truly what define are activity: not narration, or synth chords.

IMO these are the real ideals of drum corps: fundamentals that form a thread that runs from the true beginning of drum and bugle corps (which, in all honesty, bared little/no resemblance to drum corps in 1972 when DCI formed) and continue to run through the 2010 season and beyond. If you marched in a senior corps or junior corps, you experienced the above. If you marched a 'true' bugle in the 1940's, or a piston/rotor brass instrument, or a two valve G trumpet (what my wife marched in the early 90's), or a 3 valve Bb trumpet. If you marched a 15 inch snare on a sling, a 14 inch snare drum with a vest carrier, or a free-floating high tensioned snare with the aluminum mono posto carrier. If you marched a 36 inch bass drum like your brothers in the line, unison bass drum line, or tonal bass drum line. If you marched symmetrical drill or asymmetrical drill. If you had an all-female colorguard or mixed guard. If you played jazz standards from the day, patriotic standards, or concert band literature. If you wore spats and a tie, or the latest Fred J Miller custom designed washable uniform. If you marched All-Girl, A-60, A, Division I, Division 2&3, World Class, Open Class, Alumni, Parade, or mini. It doesn't matter when/what/where you marched, you learned the ideals and fundamentals that I quoted above.

That is what is, IMO, the true essence of drum corps, and what keeps the kids coming back year and year. The music, the instrumentation, the drill design are all bells and whistles used to hook kids in, but the fundamentals I mention above is what keeps people coming back. It's probably why some of you on this forum who dislike current drum corps continue to fight the battle and argue about what you like about the activity. It's what my wife remembers when she sees a show or two she doesn't like during the live feed, rolls her eyes, and makes a comment about modern drum corps or something.