Official DCP G7 Proposal Discussion Thread

[BRASSO]

good read....to follow the analogy, the tire may have gotten too big and bulged because it was perhaps over inflated and filled with too much hot air.

Edited June 1, 2010 by BRASSO

[BOBSMYTH]

There are a fixed number of shows that a Corps can perform, and given the fixed pricing schedule of the pay-for-play arrangement, there is a limit to the amount of money they can earn by simply performing at an event. Increased ticket sales are great for the activity and (I assume) correlate to higher souvenir sales, but corps might not necessarily see a share of the higher revenue for DCI considering the infrastructure cost that DCI is proposing to help support the overall activity.

The top corps ALREADY receive a large percentage of the revenue generated by DCI. In fact, the top corps can make more from this additional revenue paid out by DCI than they make in appearance fees.

SO - the big question for the G7 groups - how much more do you need? You are already getting significantly more money than the rest of the World Class corps. That does not appear to be enough as that seems to be one of the driving motivations for the formation of the G7 group and the subsequent proposal.

SO - again - how much is enough?

[MikeD]

Here is what I do see (and this is the real problem):

1. I see bands that want to copy the corps to a point of fault. Drum corps compete in the summer. Students that take part do not have a full day of classes to attend before corps practice. A corps can practice 10 to 12 hours a day at spring training and on tour. A school band, once band camp is completed, may have 45 to 50 minutes per day. That's it.

2. What happens is that some band directors are destined to achieve the super high-level product they see the corps producing and so they ask their students for more time, more after-school rehearsals, longer camps, more sectionals, more travel and prep for competitions (in addition to the already busy schedule a marching band has for home and away football games); and before you know it these kids are completely burned out, tired of marching band, and frankly have no interest in drum corps.

I agree with much of the above for the relatively small number of HS bands at the top level. But...there are over 25,000 HS in the US, so there is a large potential market to market the corps shows as the 'best of the best' to hundreds of thousands of kids.

3. These are kids that need to focus on class during the academic year. They need to have time for their studies and projects, and they need the activities they participate in to be worthwhile and comprehensive. A high school band program should be comprehensive, meaning it should provide as much concert band, jazz band, marching band, chamber ensembles, solo and ensemble, musicals, and more to its participants. Too much of one thing may ultimately make the kids less likely to want to do that ONE thing when they graduate or in the summer. Most students I meet when they show up for college auditions tell me that they are burned out with marching band. I wonder why? But supposedly this is the market we wish to go after.

Agree on that. My daughter marched 5 years in HS (an 8th grade 'hole filler'), inc her last two as DM. In college? Had no interest in MB, though she did concert band and percussion ensemble.

I think they are counting on the top percentage who just can't get enough marching/music as potential members. Even a small percentage is a rather large number given the number of HS and college bands.

4. Many high school students have no interest in attending a DCI show or marching with a corps for 2 main reasons. The first is that they already march a similar style with their school groups (speaking mainly of kids that come from competitive-style bands), and they are being asked to do more in the summer with their bands (longer camps, sectionals). So it's both a time constraint and an issue of non-interest due to the fact that they already get that style and the effect of competition through BOA, TOB, USSBA, etc.

We have taken busloads to DCI East, and have had many members attend the YEA! Music is Cool events. It is up to the staffs to play up drum corps as a great way for their kids to see the best..as they would other areas of music..e.g. Broadway shows, professional jazz ensembles, major symphonies, etc...

I am not trying to knock high school competitive marching bands, but I am saying that in many cases they are producing shows that they hope will bring about the same effect as a top drum corps, but sadly they can't because they do not have the time, the resources, sheer number of staff, etc. And that shouldn't be the point of HS marching band. They are pretending to be like the corps, but in my opinion, they are killing the corps.

Agree 100% on the first part of the paragraph. Not sure about the last statement.

Most of the kids that march in the G7 are college students. They are the die hards and often will not march with a lower-seeded corps. They either make one of the G7, or top 12, or they stay home and work. Where are the HS kids that wish to march in the other corps. Perhaps this is why those "Other" corps have had trouble finding members, and why they continue to be smaller and have less options in terms of kids showing at their audition camps.

That is a problem that needs to be addressed. Making non-top-7 corps attractive enough to the band members so they will spend the $$$ to march with them.

Yes, drum corps is a niche market, so not everyone will want to take part. But with that knowledge in mind, how does it make sense that we ONLY go after the high-school kids who are either burned out, dislike the competitive style, or simply do not have time for it due to their competitive bands' rigorous summer schedule and the time constraints that come with it?

I think the G7 have it wrong. They think they can move into the schools and recruit HS kids to come to shows and eventually march. I suppose they can, but what kind of market are we really talking about here?

I hope they are not ONLY going after that market...and since most G7 members are, as you say, in college, I think they are using the marketing to HS kids as the groundwork for future members...start them out as audience and then get them to try out later on.

I think the delusional band director and band staff (many of whom are drum corps instructors) have effectively killed the typical students' ability to march in the summer, all because they wanted to look and sound like The Cadets, or Phantom, or SCV. Certainly some of these kids will attend some shows (the diehards), but ultimately can they march while in high school? I am sure they can march once they hit college (if they do not have to work summers). If they do march once in college, you know who that benefits? Yes, the G7 corps, who stand the best chance of getting college kids. Not exactly a good solution for building the activity and saving the smaller corps.

I think, from their perspective, it is not their 'job' to save smaller corps. They want to tie themselves into the scholastic world and use those top "marching junkies" as their future members.

[Jeff Ream]

Wow,.. if true, what a indictment of the current educational system, huh ? No wonder taxpayors and parents feel so ripped off.

What happened to the " pursuit of excellence " we hear so often ?

these band directors have their areas. but if you're 5-8 years away from retirement, taking on the additional scheduling demands of a more active and maybe competitive marching band are not what you want.

Not saying I support it, but it is out there. I know one area of PA where they are waiting for several older guys to go so they can get new blood in there and build up their local circuit

[INSIDETHEFORTY]

I just finished reading the G7 proposal....again.

There are some horrible things in it, such as 2 votes for the "AAA" corps, 1 vote for the "AA" corps, and no votes for the "A" corps. This proposal would, in essense, put all of the power in the hands of the "AAA" corps, namely the G7 corps! The G7 corps would be able to make any changes they see fit, since they would automatically have a majority of votes (14) within their "caucus" at any time. In order to win a majority, the "AA" corps would need a minimum of 15 votes. The G7 knows that the corps that would be in the "AA" group would number less than 15 and would be a voting minority at any meeting. Under the proposal, the "A" corps would have no votes, and would be unable to add their voices and votes to the "AA" corps. Subsequently, the G7 would be in power and unchallenged at all meetings! Talk about "stacking the deck"? The G7 corps seek to grab all of the power in drum corps for themselves and lock all of the other corps out with this proposal!

This cannot happen. For obvious reasons, the non-G7 corps must not allow this change in voting to take place.

Each drum corps must have a say in any decision that affects it's future! Each corps MUST have a vote!

Edited June 1, 2010 by INSIDETHEFORTY

[audiodb]

The top corps ALREADY receive a large percentage of the revenue generated by DCI. In fact, the top corps can make more from this additional revenue paid out by DCI than they make in appearance fees.

SO - the big question for the G7 groups - how much more do you need? You are already getting significantly more money than the rest of the World Class corps. That does not appear to be enough as that seems to be one of the driving motivations for the formation of the G7 group and the subsequent proposal.

SO - again - how much is enough?

There is no "enough"....and thus, it is up to the other corps to say "enough".

[mobrien]

So yeah, to protect what I love I'd rather change the tire.

The problem is that the passengers in the vehicle can't agree that the tire has a problem. Some say that it does, and needs changing. Others say "it's fine, leave it alone", and a vocal number of older folks standing outside the vehicle are saying "you wouldn't have this problem if you were towing a '65 Ford pickup! That was one heckuva better truck..."

Edited June 1, 2010 by mobrien

[IntheMood]

As I was reading this I was thinking that I'd heard this before... By the end, well, short story, then the point...

We drive a 40' Class A motorhome and tow my Dodge Dakota behind it; I can barely tell the truck's there driving down the road. 6 years ago, on our way from Ohio to Disney. Cross the border into FL and stop at the Welcome Center. As the family went inside to stretch I did my normal "walk around" to make sure everything was still connected.

I happened to notice that the drivers-rear tire on the truck had a noticeable bulge in the sidewall. Not huge but big enough to make me remember to check them at our next overnight stop in Ocala, twenty five miles down the road.

Back on 75-south and looking forward to "getting there". I'm in the middle lane doing 65 and a car comes up to my left blowing it's horn. (I like to think that driver was the equivalent to DCP) At that instant I looked in the side mirror and saw a puff of smoke. I instantly knew what happened.

Emergency deceleration, check the right mirror, dive off two lanes to the berm and come to a stop half a mile later.

After my heart slowed down I looked back to see the panicked faces of my family - they had no idea what just happened. (this is the general fan base that doesn't pay attention.)

When I'd calmed everybody I exited and walked back to the truck knowing that tire had blown.

What I wasn't expecting was the complete and utter NASCAR style damage that tire had done to the the quarter panel of the truck. From the bumper to the gas cap, the wheel well down to the frame had been torn away by that "squeaking wheel".

Get the parallel?

Changing that tire at the rest stop would have saved me a ton, and the risk of doing nothing could have killed myself, my family, and maybe someone else. No wonder that driver was blowing his horn! I was spreading shrapnel damage with every foot. (ref: GH and/or the G7)

And there was no way I was going to cajole that tire into making it. It needed changed.

So yea, to protect what I love I'd rather change the tire.

I love your stroy. I just love the nice talk we all are having now. I have learned a lot. Thank you all.

Putting on my LSS hat, I would want to do a root cause on why the tire blew. Did you over inflate the tire to cause the bluge? Did you run over something to cause the bluge? Or does this make of tire have a history of blow outs? Because your story was not complete(get the parallel?) I can only assume all four tires are the same make. If that was the case I would want to do research and find data that would tell me if this make of tire has a history or not of blowing out. At the very least I would know if I had to replace the remaining tires. Changing the remaining tires because you think the make is defected before collecting data, and come to find out that make of tire has one of the best safety records of that make of tire. What waste of one's time and money. This however could all be a moot point. Becaue I am assuming all your tires are the same make.

Great points Mobrien. Yet the folks who say the tire does need changed and the folks who say it's fine leave it alone have one thing in common. They are stuck together in the same car on the side of the road with no water and food..............Sorry about that, had a flashback from BITD on Summer tour. LOL LOL with a flat tire. One thing all can agree on is the tire is flat. So now they have no choice but to work together to get the tire fixed if they want to get back on the road. There might be one or two of the passangers who decides they can get there faster if they take on walking now instead of staying back and helping. What would be interesting is, What if the people left behind to fix the tire gets the tire fixed in record time because of their team work, starts down the road and spots the two still walking. Do they pick them up or drive by?

As far as the folks talking about the 65 Ford pick-up> I would ask questions and listen to their answers on why they think this is true. I would then try and find a pick-up truck that takes the best from the old and new pick-ups of today. If there is one on the market.

Dean

[BRASSO]

I love your stroy. I just love the nice talk we all are having now. I have learned a lot. Thank you all.

Putting on my LSS hat, I would want to do a root cause on why the tire blew. Did you over inflate the tire to cause the bluge? Did you run over something to cause the bluge? Or does this make of tire have a history of blow outs? Because your story was not complete(get the parallel?) I can only assume all four tires are the same make. If that was the case I would want to do research and find data that would tell me if this make of tire has a history or not of blowing out. At the very least I would know if I had to replace the remaining tires. Changing the remaining tires because you think the make is defected before collecting data, and come to find out that make of tire has one of the best safety records of that make of tire. What waste of one's time and money. This however could all be a moot point. Becaue I am assuming all your tires are the same make.

Great points Mobrien. Yet the folks who say the tire does need changed and the folks who say it's fine leave it alone have one thing in common. They are stuck together in the same car on the side of the road with no water and food..............Sorry about that, had a flashback from BITD on Summer tour. LOL LOL with a flat tire. One thing all can agree on is the tire is flat. So now they have no choice but to work together to get the tire fixed if they want to get back on the road. There might be one or two of the passangers who decides they can get there faster if they take on walking now instead of staying back and helping. What would be interesting is, What if the people left behind to fix the tire gets the tire fixed in record time because of their team work, starts down the road and spots the two still walking. Do they pick them up or drive by?

As far as the folks talking about the 65 Ford pick-up> I would ask questions and listen to their answers on why they think this is true. I would then try and find a pick-up truck that takes the best from the old and new pick-ups of today. If there is one on the market.

Dean

Right now, G-7 seems to think they only need to buy fancy new hubcaps and rear reflectors to show off to the world, rotate the tires, sell off the car jack and the lug nuts and wrench, dump out all the useless stuff in the trunk such as the tool box, spare tires, etc. This will give them more money, lighter weight, better gas mileage, etc and they'll be ready to take off down the highway and will be looking good doing so.

Edited June 1, 2010 by BRASSO

[Gary Matczak]

There is no "enough"....and thus, it is up to the other corps to say "enough".

I'm with you,..............the Greedy 7 won't stop until they have all the marbles