MikeD Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 nope, try again... ;-) Not all opinions and perceptions are equally valid and important. That kind of thinking comes from the thinking that a high school graduation needs to have 18 valedictorians or that the last place team in little league deserves a trophy just like the winning team (don't laugh, this is common). An informed opinion is valid while an uninformed opinion is not....they are NOT equal.If DCI had not completely dropped objective judging this whole discussion would be soooo much easier to resolve..... There has never been 'objective' judging...it has always been subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 There has never been 'objective' judging...it has always been subjective. That's why they have detailed judging sheets, go to seminars, give detailed feedback to the corps, get training.....because it's all just a subjective whim? I doubt the judges would say their craft is subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 That's why they have detailed judging sheets, go to seminars, give detailed feedback to the corps, get training.....because it's all just a subjective whim? I doubt the judges would say their craft is subjective. It's subjective, but it's not just a 'whim'. Of course it is...and always has been...subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 It's subjective, but it's not just a 'whim'. Of course it is...and always has been...subjective. No, it's objective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutnout Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 No, it's objective sorry its as he says....subjective but criteria based Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 That's why they have detailed judging sheets, go to seminars, give detailed feedback to the corps, get training.....because it's all just a subjective whim? I doubt the judges would say their craft is subjective. Judging ticks was subjective, and even the most sophisticated rubric (i.e. DCI Score Sheets) isn't objective. Any truthful judge of anything (teachers, adjudicators, you name it) understands subjectivity is inescapable, no matter how hard we try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 In the midst here, I think you've hit a particular nail straight on the head.So much of the discussions I read here about "accessibility" and "average audiences" and "melody" etc etc seem to blame creativity and musical sophistication for the lack of audience involvement. Much is ballyhooed about how only "music majors" and "band geeks" could possibly understand innovative music and movement. But understandably, they've almost completely missed the point. Perhaps they haven't had the language to express it. But they've got one thing right: a choppy show doesn't work. It doesn't go anywhere. One thing a musician is useful for, is we do learn a few things about music and listener involvement. As you pointed out, any show of any advancement and sophistication can be improved by a sense of building excitement, tension and release, an "arc" that is clear from opening note to thrilling finish. This goes for a classic whistleable Madison Scouts "all-hits-all-the-time" show, and a Santa Clara "Bartok" show, and anything beyond. Regardless of your musical and visual material, an audience taken on a well-guided ride and plopped back safely in their seats at the finish will feel good. As a percussionist, I've seen "average" audiences react well to some of the most out-there stuff, when the stuff reached out and engaged them, had continuity from beginning to end, and ended with a worthwhile release. I'll bet that doing one element better -- an effective dramatic arc -- in more show designs, would save 90% of the misdirected griping we hear about everything else. i am 100% inclined to agree. I've discovered many new tunes because of drum corps, and if the arrangment is captivating, it pulls you in. I never heard the Canyon before SCV, or the Machine before Cavies, but both sucked me in because of the arrangement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Gosh, too bad that so many designers are thinking about design, ain't it?Why aren't they thinking about MONEY and PROFITS instead? What kinda Americans are they anyway? Harrumph! if people stop buying, who will see your "art"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 That's why they have detailed judging sheets, go to seminars, give detailed feedback to the corps, get training.....because it's all just a subjective whim? I doubt the judges would say their craft is subjective. whim, no. subjective yes. The sheets have detailed criteria, but there is no "rgight or wrong" clearly marked on the sheets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesmr Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 No, it's objective So, two judges judging the same thing but producing two different outcomes is an exercise in objectivity? (Might want to tell that to an Olympic figure-skating judge panel.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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