An interesting Lewisburg review

[JimF-LowBari]

Great Point!!! It would be interesting to find out how many members of the GENERAL PUBLIC paid to watch the show in Lewisburg versus the number of DRUM CORPS PEOPLE who paid to get into that show.

If it were to be left only to the latter group, there wouldn't be a show there next year. Nor would there be one in Kingston, or Jamestown, or.... or.... or....

If we forget about the great unwashed masses who BUY the tickets, I'm afraid our activity is in deep trouble.

Would love to know that at every show for all circuits Andy as it's great thing to keep in mind.

Haven't made Lewisburg/Bucknell for a few years but the show is a little unique as it used to be a big show back in our time, wasn't held for a while and then came back pretty strong.

And to go with the thought, wonder what percentage of corps people/general public care about who wins as opposed to just wanting to be entertained.

[Fran Haring]

If we forget about the great unwashed masses who BUY the tickets, I'm afraid our activity is in deep trouble.

Absolutely.

[Andyroo]

Would love to know that at every show for all circuits Andy as it's great thing to keep in mind.

Haven't made Lewisburg/Bucknell for a few years but the show is a little unique as it used to be a big show back in our time, wasn't held for a while and then came back pretty strong.

And to go with the thought, wonder what percentage of corps people/general public care about who wins as opposed to just wanting to be entertained.

I must admit to being somewhat biased, but I saw and heard the crowd reaction to the last two competing corps and to the exhibition corps that went on last. There's no question but that they were there to be entertained and weren't really all that interested in subtleties and nuances.

[cabalumnidrummer]

I witnessed the last three competing corps from the back of the field, by the corps gate (I was not yet in the stadium for Bush or the Hurcs). Certainly not a great spot to judge or review anyone's performance, and I would never try to, even if I were in the stands. It's just not my thing.

However, I did get a good read on crowd reaction from where I was. If the the crowd had a say, or if the General Effect were tied more to crowd reaction, then the prediction of "The Nose's" relative is pretty much they way it would have gone. It seemed to me that the crowd liked Reading a lot, but appeared to enjoy Hawthorne more, and they absolutely loved Empire. My question is this -- wasn't there once a provision on the G.E. sheets, a sub-caption in G.E. where crowd reaction was a consideration, and not just the way the show appealed to the judge? Am I remembering some kind of ancient history, or worse, imagining such a sub-caption? I'm not looking to stir up controversy. Just curious.

My point is, as others seem to be saying, it's the fans, the paying customers that ultimately will determine if there is a long-term future for DCA. They aren't experts in music or visual (heck, most of us in corps aren't experts), but they know what they like, and as Andyroo says, they want to be entertained for the price of their admission. Their opinion shouldn't be ignored or overlooked entirely. I fear that when crowds are dissatisfied often enough, they will just stop coming to shows.

[BigW]

I can answer that question in regards quite a few seasons ago for you, but not for today's DCA sheets or adjudication..

At one time, the sheets regardless of caption said clearly that 'Entertainment' had to be taken into account- and in the case of the performance and analysis-based captions, it was to be used basically as a tiebreaker. If two corps were essentially equal that night, the tie in caption was to be broken in favor of the more entertaining corps.

It did play a certain factor in the GE number, but it was also not considered to be the overriding and decisive issue, either. Again, it was to be used primarily when things got close as a decider, a tie-breaker. Depending on the caption and the corps competing that night, it could and did come into play.

It really has to be kept in mind that 'Entertainment' can mean running a gamut of options and emotions besides baby-throwing. For instance, Empire at times got the audience to laugh with them at Lewisburg, or in the case of certain corps, maybe they get you to cry or suprise you.

One good example of a spot where people were clearly entertained in DCA which didn't necessarily cause the crowd to rip off their shirts like Hulk Hogan or throw babies was when the Hurcs did Ben-Hur in the part with the galley music, and the whip and all the other good stuff that went on there. People still talk about it, and I can remember thinking to myself "Cool, a very, very fun and cool moment", and the crowd was all in that kind of zen where you could tell they were engaged and really into what was happening.

Were they going nuts? No, but they really did appreciate it. Heck, there was a recent thread on that and people still talk about how much they loved that moment and remembered it fondly.

[ajlisko]

At one time, the sheets regardless of caption said clearly that 'Entertainment' had to be taken into account- and in the case of the performance and analysis-based captions, it was to be used basically as a tiebreaker. If two corps were essentially equal that night, the tie in caption was to be broken in favor of the more entertaining corps.

HAHA ... this is so funny ... I vividly remember a GE judge in 80 or 81 saying " ... the crowd is in a frenzy and seems to be enjoying the show very much but, I can't let that affect my opinion of your performance ... yada ... yada ..."

:-)

[JimF-LowBari]

Absolutely.

Considering my degree is in the technical area and NOT the arts... Agreed... (LOL, got a "pity" B in Music Theory I)

Who wants to make an "I'm with the unwashed masses" shirt.

s/ Guy who walked away for 10 years cuz he got BORED!!

Edited July 22, 2010 by JimF-LowBari

[LegalEagle50]

However, I did get a good read on crowd reaction from where I was. If the the crowd had a say, or if the General Effect were tied more to crowd reaction, then the prediction of "The Nose's" relative is pretty much they way it would have gone. It seemed to me that the crowd liked Reading a lot, but appeared to enjoy Hawthorne more, and they absolutely loved Empire.

Well that goes against someone else's theory in another thread that the crowd was in a coma and/or dead except for Empire and Cabs Alum......

[DCC]

...It seemed to me that the crowd liked Reading a lot, but appeared to enjoy Hawthorne more, and they absolutely loved Empire....

My point is, as others seem to be saying, it's the fans, the paying customers that ultimately will determine if there is a long-term future for DCA. They aren't experts in music or visual (heck, most of us in corps aren't experts), but they know what they like, and as Andyroo says, they want to be entertained for the price of their admission. Their opinion shouldn't be ignored or overlooked entirely. I fear that when crowds are dissatisfied often enough, they will just stop coming to shows.

You seem to contradict yourself in these two parts of your post. IF, as you say, the crowd liked Reading a lot, and also liked Cabs and Empire, then it doesn't sound like the "Unwashed Masses" (someone else's coined term, I believe) left Bucknell feeling like they weren't entertained. I stuck around and watched Reading do their victory concert and there were lots of people that decided to stay and cheer on the winner that night. I have gone to this show for many years as it is one of the closest to me of the season. The crowd has only grown over the years so I don't think that the Buccs winning all these years has hurt attendance.

I don't think that you are saying this, but it seems like a running theme in this thread and several others is that the Buccs are winning all these shows but the crowd is not enjoying their performances. I have seen the Buccs several times over the last 10 or 12 years and I can tell you that they always get a good reaction from the audiences. I know some of my drum corps friends that just don't like their style of shows, but the same is true for many other corps too.

Let's call it like it is. Back when I marched, no one could beat the Cabs very often, if at all, and it was frustrating to me. This generated a lot of negative attitudes toward them from people from other corps. But, they were always appreciated by the crowds where ever they performed. The same was true with Bush and Brigs, and now it is the case with Reading. A goood portion of the crowd at DCA shows are the corps members and staff, along with their friends that come along. This is where most of this negativity comes from IMHO toward the corps that happens to be dominating at the moment. Not the general audience and local crowd.

Does anyone have any real numbers for paid attendance at the big shows over the last 10 years or so? It seems to me that Lewisburg is very healthy, the Grand Prix does very well, Reading's show is usually full and DCA in Rochester does great all weekend. But these are just my casual observations having gone to these shows many times over the years. I think DCA shows have been holding their own or even growing despite the tough economy that we've ben in for 2 or 3 years now. I would have to think that is because the paying audience still thinks the shows are worth the $10 - $25 it costs to go. They must feel they are getting their money's worth.

[cabalumnidrummer]

It's interesting how people try to read so much into what we post here.

I meant no criticism of the Bucs or anyone else. They are very good, and people like them a lot. I was simply making some observations based on what I witnessed in the way of crowd reaction from where I sat. They were not comatose during the performances any of the three corps that were on the field while I was in the stadium, including Reading. I noticed a marked difference in the crowd's enthusiasm following Empire's performance. If anyone cares to disagree it's fine with me, but that's how I saw it.

Yes, the people were entertained, and that's why the average 'novice fan'/non-member comes to the shows. I just want to see that continue. The financial viability of these contests depends on it. Corps and judges shouldn't forget that.