Pioneer

[drumguy50]

This. I don't know who this guy is, but he's obviously been around the organization in some capacity. This is the EXACT root of the problem...if you're in the camp that Pioneer has a "problem", that is.

Never involved with Pioneer but I have been around with several different DCM corps and know the non world corps get paid crap to do any thing with DCI. As far as the other, you can pretty easily track how the changes coicide.

[HockeyDad]

Perception is the last thing on Roman's mind. He obviously doesn't care how his organization is perceived, or things would've changed a long time ago. He's also not worried about perception of him within or outside the organization. He just does what he does, and people either follow him or they don't. No biggie, from his standpoint.

Now, this isn't exactly different from Hopkins or Gibbs, either, except those dudes want to be perceived as excellent, as it's measured on the sheets anyway. (if not the audience) So they work hard to create that single perception.

Roman has no impetus to be perceived in any way, except maybe "a good man who means well." That permeates to his organization, "a good corps that means well." No other perception is required.

I think you've nailed it.

As a follow up: If this approach is good enough for Roman, is that good enough?

[Tom Brace]

I think you've nailed it.

As a follow up: If this approach is good enough for Roman, is that good enough?

A corps that would have been 3rd at OC Finals perhaps? Is that good enough? Yep. Pioneer is going to do what Roman wants it to do. I again applaud the reaching out to Africa and other countries to introduce the world to drum corps in some small way. Competition is more internalized at Pioneer in that their goal/mission is internally directed...can we...get better everyday? That's the Pioneer question and it isn't relative to their competitive position with other corps. And as an entire organization...not just the members...can they...get better everyday? Is today's staff better equipped to teach a drum corps than the staff was 5 years ago? Is the equipment better? Is the transportation. food, other support better?

Because, if there is a disconnect between what members are asked to do and what the corps offers in terms of supporting this mission, then that disconnect can be ultimately detrimental to success of this mission statement in the short and long term.

This is the essence of my thoughts on this topic to date. Does Pioneer ask and answer the question as an organization...to get better everyday. I am crystal that this is what they ask of their marching members.

[BozzlyB]

A corps that would have been 3rd at OC Finals perhaps? Is that good enough? Yep. Pioneer is going to do what Roman wants it to do. I again applaud the reaching out to Africa and other countries to introduce the world to drum corps in some small way. Competition is more internalized at Pioneer in that their goal/mission is internally directed...can we...get better everyday? That's the Pioneer question and it isn't relative to their competitive position with other corps. And as an entire organization...not just the members...can they...get better everyday? Is today's staff better equipped to teach a drum corps than the staff was 5 years ago? Is the equipment better? Is the transportation. food, other support better?

Because, if there is a disconnect between what members are asked to do and what the corps offers in terms of supporting this mission, then that disconnect can be ultimately detrimental to success of this mission statement in the short and long term.

This is the essence of my thoughts on this topic to date. Does Pioneer ask and answer the question as an organization...to get better everyday. I am crystal that this is what they ask of their marching members.

I refuse to believe that Pioneer isn't bigger than the vision of one man. Do you really think the members of Pioneer want their drum corps experience to be some esoteric philosophical view into their souls ability to overcome while simoultaneously struggling, forever, with the competitive aspect of the activity? I don't, in fact I would bet a good portion if not the majority of the membership would prefer to kick a little ### and take a few names from time to time.

[JohnDonovanDotBiz]

Explain to me how DCI saying, "You're too #### good to compete in that division, welcome to Div 1 where you'll compete against corps in your performance range, have the chance to CONTINUE growth and upward momentum and make more money" is being punished. What was the point back then of staying in Div II? Just to win a 4th in a row? I thought Pioneer didn't care about winning? I certainly hope you're not implying that the move to Div 1 was the deciding factor that has led to a record number of consecutive last place finishes.

you don't penalize the corps for div 2 championships and quarterfinals... thats educational malpractice..

pioneer not care about winning? you don't know the Pioneer I marched in 96.

[BozzlyB]

you don't penalize the corps for div 2 championships and quarterfinals... thats educational malpractice..

pioneer not care about winning? you don't know the Pioneer I marched in 96.

Therin lies the disagreement, you see it as penalization, I see it as reward.

[corps8294]

pioneer not care about winning? you don't know the Pioneer I marched in 96.

The same '96 Pioneer corps that I observed going through the motions on finals night and getting beat, fair-and-square, by a feisty little corps from Quebec with more drive, determination, passion, and innovation?

Pioneer wasn't going to win that year just based on thier size. Pioneer carried over a lot of talent, and corps size, going into the '97 and '98 seasons and what did they do with that talent? A watered down Riverdance production and an ultra-cheesy, blat heavy, Irish In Your Face program the following year.

Edited September 17, 2010 by shortn'sour

[BozzlyB]

One wonders if Roman will hand down the edict for another Irish show in 2011 for their 50th. I'd bet anyone $100.00 he does.

[corps8294]

...and all this mumbo-jumbo about Pioneer getting screwed up the jaxie in '96 and being forced into Division I?

That's just hilarious! Pioneer totally had the talent and the size to move up; as usual, it was poor programming that did them in.

[Tom Brace]

I refuse to believe that Pioneer isn't bigger than the vision of one man. Do you really think the members of Pioneer want their drum corps experience to be some esoteric philosophical view into their souls ability to overcome while simoultaneously struggling, forever, with the competitive aspect of the activity? I don't, in fact I would bet a good portion if not the majority of the membership would prefer to kick a little ### and take a few names from time to time.

well, if this were true people wouldn't march there last season....but...they did. So, Pioneer is giving 100+ more kids an opportunity to march drum corps. Is it how I would do it? Nope. But, I don't get to do it. I don't want to do it. Roman does. And therein lies the difference.