DCW article regarding touring . . .

[The Other Mike]

Maybe Hoppy should question his OWN relevancy. He's not exactly Mr. Popular.

Soda ALL OVER THE SCREEN

[jplattSCV]

With regards to the "how", I think overhauling the judging and scoring gets us nowhere. Who wins isn't going to effect the gate. What the shows look like is what's going to draw. This year you had largely 22 corps with traditional shows and one you would classify as "artistry"..how does that figure in to Hop's metrics? It's not as if the designers are leaping on to the artistry bandwagon. So it's really about the whole package presentation, audience interface with the corps through different intiatives, pre/post show nuances and other G7 proposal ideas.

Which one was artistry? It was Madison, right?

Before you flame me, that was my attempt at being ironic. Madison connected with many that post here better than most because it was more traditional.

[ImperialSound_Director]

Well,

In regards to this, I say that the focus of the model (the broken one) is not a competitive or artistic one, but rather A.) a financial one, and B.) a structural one.

As far as the DCI tour model goes, well, I'm not in the thick of things, but a regionalized model that would mandate a small number of shows and a higher number of all-days in the beginning of the season would make sure 1.) that drum corps would have more stable housing options, locally, and 2.) would diminish travel expenses, potential vehicle liabilities, and wear & tear on owned buses and trailers.

In addition, the use of a regionalized model would reinforce local sentimentality toward the corps themselves and increase the possibility for local pride, support, and donors. It would also allow a better stepping stone for smaller corps to build upon their own finances workable solutions to today's problems. Housing is a big one, and having to move from state to state from June to August does not help the drum corps "Housing Crisis".

Structurally, encouraging and helping local people (like myself) who are trying to build small drum corps (kuddos to DCI on DCNA, btw) would allow an inter-drum corps backbone of support, educated membership, and a larger fan base to allow the activity to grow again.

Thats the way I see it, at least. My $0.02.

Rob

[jpaul]

Well,

In regards to this, I say that the focus of the model (the broken one) is not a competitive or artistic one, but rather A.) a financial one, and B.) a structural one.

As far as the DCI tour model goes, well, I'm not in the thick of things, but a regionalized model that would mandate a small number of shows and a higher number of all-days in the beginning of the season would make sure 1.) that drum corps would have more stable housing options, locally, and 2.) would diminish travel expenses, potential vehicle liabilities, and wear & tear on owned buses and trailers.

In addition, the use of a regionalized model would reinforce local sentimentality toward the corps themselves and increase the possibility for local pride, support, and donors. It would also allow a better stepping stone for smaller corps to build upon their own finances workable solutions to today's problems. Housing is a big one, and having to move from state to state from June to August does not help the drum corps "Housing Crisis".

Structurally, encouraging and helping local people (like myself) who are trying to build small drum corps (kuddos to DCI on DCNA, btw) would allow an inter-drum corps backbone of support, educated membership, and a larger fan base to allow the activity to grow again.

Thats the way I see it, at least. My $0.02.

Rob

I don't know that the housing situation would be any better. It could actually make it more difficult when, instead of looking for housing a night or two at a time, you're looking for someplace to park for a week at a time.

[mobrien]

People who would enjoy all kinds of music played with a unique, exciting sound against fast-paced, visually appealing drill formations? Say, people who like action movies, or the outdoors.

Drum corps is only as insular or inaccessible as show designers make it.

Uh huh. To test your theory, consider that the Quarterfinals moviecast is advertised with trailers at movie theaters all summer long. People who saw Iron Man 2 and The A Team, etc, etc, were all being exposed to the trailer when they went to go see their action movies.

How many of those people do you think showed up in August at the movie theater? Few, if any. Was it because they looked at a very exciting collection of snippets, and thought "I bet there's a show in there with some discordant music - I think I'll take a pass"? Yeah, probably not.

It appeals to those to whom it appeals. Considering that mainstream art forms like symphonies, live theatre, and art museums are still considered "niche activities" among the general public, it's a little presumptuous and a lot wrong to believe that if the "inaccessible" shows today were simply turned into...uh....what? -DCI's 1980s lineup of programs? - that all of a sudden, you'd have 30 million people pounding down the gates to buy tickets to their local show.

If you want to increase the size of the audience, work to increase the number of corps, since the audience for drum corps was and always has been those who have marched and those whose friends and families are marching today. The show designs have next to nothing to with it, but a less expensive, more localized form of competition for lower tier and mid-tier corps could (something that WAS part of the original G7 proposal, btw).

Edited November 7, 2010 by mobrien

[IntheMood]

You know Dave, Mr. Hopkins is known to say and do things just to rile people up. You know as much as I do that his words there were just taking what Scott said and using them for his own purposes. Now if that is really what he wanted for Drum Corps that is the direction he would be pointing his Corps and wanting others to follow with him, it definitly is not his vision IMHO. Its all good though, they were great last year and the Cadets will be great in 2011 and one difference between him and Scott is that he is still here doing and pushing DCI and the Cadets to let kids still do there best year in and year out just like we were able to do when we marched. Scott has moved on and in reality has nothing good to say about DCI per usual and I dont even see him helping out the Scouts much (which in reality he really could be a great help to the Corps in many facets he just has moved on). That in a nutshell as you know has been a big stink between him and I and always will be. I am all about DCI and the kids he is all about DCA witch is great for him, and am sooooo happy that he is doing what he for awhile has wanted to do DCA. I just wish that he would not forget where he got his Iconic status from and that if it was not for doing the Madison Scouts in DCI for so many years that he would not be doing what he is doing now. It is so easy to forget where you came from, what got him to where he is today an Icon in our activity. I am happy that he is in a better spot for himself with the mighty KILTIES and it is always good to see him every year like I do, we just have different ways of looking at the activity always have and always will. They both have there spot in the world of Drum Corps.

Years ago someone posted a link or the article here on DCP that compared Mr. Stewart's and Mr. Hopkins vision for our Activity.. I can not find the article. Could someone tell me where the article is located or post it on here?

Dean

[thirdcoast]

who is to say Scott hasn't asked to be involved or conversely told to stay away?

you cant argue with that article tho, when you see where drum corps has gone since then.....and with what many people see as the flaws that currently exist

I guess to answer or at least try to answer that question would be just pure speculation on my part so in no way will I give it a go. There I am sure has been a time when it was possible that it was asked both for and agianst I just have way to much respect for the man to even touch the subject. To me personally I have always thought he could be such a positive frontman for not only the Madison Scouts but the whole activity period in so many ways. He always had such an aura about him that would just pull you right in to whatever he was attempting to do. I do wish him well in his new endevor of DCA and the Kilties. I do miss that rivalry he had with Mr. Hopkins it sure made for some interesting days and kept GH on his toes.

[Hrothgar15]

It's a little presumptuous and a lot wrong to believe that if the "inaccessible" shows today were simply turned into...uh....what? -DCI's 1980s lineup of programs? - that all of a sudden, you'd have 30 million people pounding down the gates to buy tickets to their local show.

Maybe not that high of a number, but yeah, that's the overall idea.

Why not try it out?

[soccerguy315]

more localized form of competition for lower tier and mid-tier corps could (something that WAS part of the original G7 proposal, btw).

actually the proposal wanted to offer zero support to the "lowest" tier of corps (OC)

[sarnia sam]

http://www.drumcorpsworld.com/articles.cfm?id=833

... one stand-out thing that George Hopkins said that bears discussion here in the main forum:

“Can we figure out how to become what Dave Gibbs [executive director of the Blue Devils] would call ‘relevant?’ Can we figure out how to be relevant again to a large enough community that they’ll be willing to support us?” he said. “Is it enough to go out there and do the shows that we do now or do we have to have a corps be more interesting? Do we have to have something in the pre-show? Do we have to have a post-show or special encores that are fun?

“And do we have to mandate that the corps are entertaining -- I mean, really entertaining, like audience-wise?” he continued. “Do we have to stop with the artistry and force-feed the fact that those corps that get a standing ovation are going to win this thing -- if that’s what it’s going to take -- instead of perhaps those corps that take an artistic route, that we’re not maintaining an audience because people aren’t that interested in the classical, creative, avant-garde approach.

“I’ve been a part of all of that and I’ve been a part of it for a long time. The question for me, at least, is ‘Are we able to do that?’ ”

Hopkins isn’t sure that’s happening right now, enough for people to part with $25 or $30.

“And that’s when you have to acknowledge the model’s broken,” he said. “You don’t even want to pay $25 for a local show. The corps are losing money to be at that show. We’re being paid less than it costs for us to be on the road. So if the sponsors don’t want to pay any more for us and tickets don’t want to pay anymore for us and we’re not getting paid enough, it’s a problem.”

There's a lot to consider there. Do we include "entertainment" as some sort of mandate and have the sheets read more DCA-like in the future? What can the performances do to be more "relevant" to the average audience member?

I think Hop is right on here . . . in the regard that we've experimented a lot these past ten years in the "what" of drum corps (instrumentation, electronics) . . .maybe now it's time to tinker with the "how" regarding a judging and scoring overhaul.

What do you think?

(I know this article covers more than the above . . .but I thought this was important enough that it required a separate thread. Let's try to focus on whats quoted above here, rather than the touring discussion, which has a separate thread).

The key words from Hopkins are: Can we figure out how to be relevant again...

I have read the posts on this thread and arguments about the touring model, judging, etc, that are totally missing the point.

what the ^&%$ is the product?

Obviously, it's one most people aren't buying.

AND, it all hinges on the music, not the drill or choreogrpahy or what ever it's being called at the moment. Yes the drill is pretty, and yes it looks very hard to do, but if people can't follow the music, they punch another button.

It's very simple.

Last night I was at the reunion of my corps. A stage band was created four years ago populated mostly by vets of the corps and a few from other corps. They played arrangments of tunes from one of the parent corps from the 70s, and arrangements from the other from the late 60s and early 70s - and one tune from the era I marched in. (note to Ron Allard - only Ontario from the 71 show got left out).

My girlfriend, with no exposure to drum corps of any kind until I met her, turned to me and said - this really does send a chill up the spine.

No drill, no uniforms, no football field.

It happened to me too. Fantastic arrangements (by Steve Bailey) made it a night to remember.

This same person (my girlfriend) has been a work in progress to get her tuned into some of what my life has been. She doesn't get DCI of the modern era, not at all, She somewhat gets the 70s and 80s because she can follow the music (I think she's just lacking the live exposure). She really liked the corps at Rochester because for the most part thay played complete tunes - not snippets. By the way, she's an artist and a museum designer whose work you've likely seen; she gets sophpisticated very well.

But she loved the, to quote a previous poster, bad ### arrangements of the stuff she heard last night.

When I started corps in 1970 there were lots of peripheral fans who had no direct involvement. They just went to shows and got entertained. Today they get bored real quick and I can't get them to reconsider another shot at the experience.

It took talent to play Legend of the One Eyed Sailor or any other tune you want to pick from back in the day, and I can count the music majors I marched with on one hand - but it took a lot more talent to make an arrangement that scored well and entertained the schlubs who don't know a blown attack from an off-key note. Us schmucks put out a quality product with quality arrangements.

Today, we have better quality musicianship but much poorer arrangements that do not please the majority of people.

Start putting out a quality, entertaining product musically and things will turn around.

So, what does that mean? Abandon classical? Not on your life. Drum corps, specifically Vanguard and Regiment turned me onto classical music. Thanks to Devils and Del I like jazz. Sorry, no corps did a thing for imputing an appreciation of country music in this boy's life, but I hope you get my point.

Tone down the artistry? No. Does anyone think there is no artistry involved in replicating MacArthur Park as Madison did? If you think not, then there's isn't much to discuss.

Change the sheets? Qualified yes. Put more emphaisis on performance and less on design and that will add grease to the wheel. Take back some points to the music from drill too. Continue to be creative drill people, and show me how you can wow me within the context of a whole song. What you collectively do now, while on the technical side is creative, taken as a whole its disconnected and as choppy as the music is.

Dilute the competition. Are you crazy? We live in the most competitive society in the history of the world. As a marching member, I and my buddies lived for the scores each night. Why because they reflected what we did, not what someone did in a study room in February. If our score went up, it meant we played better, not wrote better. If you want to kill any hope of maintaining a steady recruiting base, take out the competitive aspect.

As to the avant guard stuff, small doses keep the variety quotient up, but two hours worth, no thanks. Even ten minutes is too much.

Oh, and people back in the day really love drum solos. Average people. Today every drum break sounds like the last and it's gone in the blink of an eye. When did drum solos become the ######## child of DRUM CORPS?

I'd like to add that I like a lot of the arrangments being done today. My tastes run to a more sophisticated atmosphere, but I don't have my head so far up my butt to think everyone will get off on it as much as I do.

Regards,

John