charlie1223 Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 (edited) No comparison of the evolution drum corps to the evolution of technology can ever be valid. well, I think the evolution of drum corps is more like the evolution of Art anyway. I don't think anyone would think that drum corps a decade ago was like an Cassette tape and the 2010 drum corps was like the ipad. I think that each decade (or even year) of drum corps is like its own special flavor. People like a certain flavor better than another but I don't think anyone really wants for there only to be SINGLE flavor. (I actually hate chocolate. I know... I'm weird. But I wouldn't say that because I HATE chocolate that I think chocolate shouldn't exist.) Each year drum corps develops a different flavor. (Plus I think the initial argument was just referencing things that change. Technology "changes", Art "changes", values and morals "change". I think you inferred that drum corps "changed" LIKE "technology" and according to your argument it would mean that one version of drum corps was inferior to another, which I think we can all agree isn't true.) Edited December 30, 2010 by charlie1223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifuarian Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 I would say, like Mr. Boo said, That not all technological progress was good like the computer, and some progress was also indifferent too. The indifferent evolutions can be seen in Art for example. Look at the number of evolutions art had gone through from Classical, to Middle Ages, to Renaissance to Pre-Modern to Post-Modern... I mean, that certainly evolved but at the same time one can't prove that one age of art was better than another in an empirical sense. But we of course have our preferences. so evolving doesn't necessarily mean it's to better or worse, it just means its different. What I think Hrothgar is trying to say is that each generation of technology (information technology, at least) is objectively better than the last - faster, lighter, more efficient, etc. Not the case with all technology, but with things like computers it's mostly true. Art is of course subjective, and it is difficult (and futile) to argue whether the art of one era is better or worse than that of another. Apples and oranges. Really this is something that's not worth arguing about any further, it arose when Hrothgar decided nitpick a post instead of responding to its actual argument. Hrothgar, you're right when you say that there are many fans who would be satisfied if drum corps was frozen at about 1985 . . . we've got a lot of fans who marched in that era. Plenty would like to see drum corps frozen at 1995. Some people I know who marched in the mid-2000s have grumbled about synths, sounding just a little bit like the dinos they still poke fun at. Much as I enjoy drum corps now, I wouldn't mind seeing things stay they way the were circa 1999-2000. Back in 1985 there were many who wanted to see drum corps like it was in 1960, and in 1960 there were no doubt many who participated in the 30s who felt that drum corps had become a little too much like college marching band. Most fans would be happy if drum corps stayed the way it was whenever they marched/became a fan. A lot of people sneer at this attitude, but I'm sympathetic. Those are the shows that drew them in, that kept them marching, and kept them coming back after they aged out. Now some things were certainly better in the mid-80s . . . fan reactions were certainly more visceral than they are today. Doubtless some of this had to do with the shows, which were perhaps more in tune with the types of moments, effects, etc. which will get people on their feet, and these moments could be isolated and described with careful surveying (and I think DCI should attempt this, at least informally). But there is so much more at work. Emotion, nostalgia, historical context, and so on. While that big company front that drove fans crazy in the 80s might work on fans of any era, the show that went with it might seem drab and cliched to kids marching today, and ridiculously band-ish to someone who began their drum corps career in, say, the 40s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 No one wants to plunk down $4000 on a 30-year-old Tandy as their next computer. Just as a quick non-sequiter to your argument, here you go. Somone dropped a bit more than $4000 for a 30 year old computer.... enjoy My link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 So very true and accurate. Thanks for the show of support Mr. Boo. You've always got the right mindset on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrillmanSop06 Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 So what are you getting at? Am I the only one that doesn't get it? Bueller? Anyone? I don't think there's a point. And I'm not sure how progress can't be compared with...progress. Can you please rephrase your argument? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 This is a good point. I guess I never thought that people wouldn't want show music to be close to the original because I always hear people complaining about the arrangements being chopped up. I mean, frankly out of all the arguments "against" singing in drum corps this would have to be the best one. I do admire the ability of drum corps to adapt the orginal for brass and percussion. That is where part of the creativity is for sure. So, though I'm not swayed on not having singing. You've made me see clearer the other side of the argument. Having caught myself up on the posts related to the evolution of the activity, this one seemed to have slipped through with little attention even though it is so important to the discussion. It is the restrictions and limitations put on the activity that forces the creativity. The rules say "Play anything you want to but do it with only brass and drums", forcing arrangers to be truly creative to get the source material's intent across within those rules. For me, grounding the pit and G to Bb didn't change that paradigm. A&E pushed the limit but voices, strings and, if it ever happens, woodwinds will mostly eliminate this most unique aspect of drum corps music. There are many but, for me, one of the most clear-cut examples of this effect is '88 SCV's Phantom. I saw the drum corps show, then flew to NY to see the play live, and came away even more in love with SCV's version because it was so true to the original source while only using horns, drums, and guard. What we're approaching today, with the "evolution" of drum corps, is taking the full cast and pit orchestra of Phantom of the Opera and adding a corps of drums and horns as accompaniment. When drum corps approaches so literally the source, in instrumentation and voice, then it's lost it's unique creativity. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted December 30, 2010 Author Share Posted December 30, 2010 I don't think there's a point. And I'm not sure how progress can't be compared with...progress. Can you please rephrase your argument? Rifuarian summed it up quite nicely. Many don't see the recent changes in drum corps as "progress" in that field at all, while no one would make that claim about technology. That's the crux. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted December 30, 2010 Author Share Posted December 30, 2010 What we're approaching today, with the "evolution" of drum corps, is taking the full cast and pit orchestra of Phantom of the Opera and adding a corps of drums and horns as accompaniment. When drum corps approaches so literally the source, in instrumentation and voice, then it's lost it's unique creativity. When do I get to hit the green "plus" button again? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 (edited) well, I think the evolution of drum corps is more like the evolution of Art anyway. I don't think anyone would think that drum corps a decade ago was like an Cassette tape and the 2010 drum corps was like the ipad. I think that each decade (or even year) of drum corps is like its own special flavor. People like a certain flavor better than another but I don't think anyone really wants for there only to be SINGLE flavor. (I actually hate chocolate. I know... I'm weird. But I wouldn't say that because I HATE chocolate that I think chocolate shouldn't exist.) Each year drum corps develops a different flavor. (Plus I think the initial argument was just referencing things that change. Technology "changes", Art "changes", values and morals "change". I think you inferred that drum corps "changed" LIKE "technology" and according to your argument it would mean that one version of drum corps was inferior to another, which I think we can all agree isn't true.) Yes, but how long would you return if chocolate was added to EVERYTHING for the sake of progress and winning? I assume it would be like poisoning the well so to speak for you. Edited December 30, 2010 by Mello Dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 It is the restrictions and limitations put on the activity that forces the creativity. The rules say "Play anything you want to but do it with only brass and drums", forcing arrangers to be truly creative to get the source material's intent across within those rules. Easier to quote this than to repeat my long time feelings. Back in the 70s I would brag about DC because corps could play beautiful music (or knock ya outta yer socks) with those piston/rotor beasts. People can bash today but you really had to pay attention when you played them. Today DCA is still horns and drums so still can get that thrill. For me, grounding the pit and G to Bb didn't change that paradigm. A&E pushed the limit but voices, strings and, if it ever happens, woodwinds will mostly eliminate this most unique aspect of drum corps music. Gotta go with this too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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